- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was keep (no consensus). When moving a page under a deletion discussion, please remeber to fix the subsequent redlink in the AFD tag by making a redirect to the ongoing discussion. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The systematic bias against doctor's surgeries, churches, parks and supermarkets (etc) and in favour of primary schools should be addressed by killing the schoolcruft. Dunc|☺ 15:30, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- This is a bit rich, given Dunc's systemic bias in favour of railcruft and related irrelevant minutiae. Cluttering up Wikipedia with pointless articles that nobody will ever read, about non-notable trains - which are merely hunks of metal on wheels - and featuring such useful information as what colour the carriages of some defunct British rail company that nobody has ever heard of were painted in 1958, makes most school articles look like they're worthy of the Nobel Prize for Literature, by comparison. --Centauri 00:25, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, international schools are even more interesting than average. Also per wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Kappa 15:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep; although I agree with you in principle, international schools are more notable (I would not say "interesting", because I am not Kappa) than your common or garden variety primary school. Needs a cleanup to make its notability more obvious, however. --fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 16:23, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. How many schools in Finland offer curricula in both Finnish and English?--Nicodemus75 18:04, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Uh...probably all of them. Neutralitytalk 01:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- "consider not participating if: a nomination involves a topic with which you are unfamiliar." Kappa 01:50, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Uh...probably all of them. Neutralitytalk 01:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, I have yet to see an article about something finnish that wasn't worthy of inclusion, it could use expansion though. Klonimus 23:32, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- keep please this school is important and we do not want to promote systemic biases here any more Yuckfoo 18:23, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep as per Wikipedia:Schools. Verifiable [1] Dlyons493 18:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- When citing Wikipedia:Schools, please make clear to others who read your comments that it is not policy. In any case, it sets no specific criterion. It does say that "the only fitting criterion is how much verifiable, NPOV information can be found on the school." In this case, there isn't very much. And it's not even clear how verifiable it is. The article cites no sources at all. The website mentioned by Dlyons493 is not a website for the school, but a general website for the City of Espoo. I can verify from that website that the school exists, but I cannot, for example, verify that it has 360 pupils and 45 staff members, as the link for the school itself, http://www.edu.espoo.fi/~pkoulu2/englind.htm , does not currently seem to be functioning. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Why should he have to "make clear that Wikipedia:Schools is not policy" anymore than any other citation of reasons for voting? I see no reason for this since Wikipedia:Schools itself states it is not policy, and the only reason to mention it during an AfD is to attempt to somehow invalidate the ideas expressed there. I see no demand that all voters who say "non-notable" as their justification for delete, "make clear that lack of notability is not a valid criteria for school deletion as per WP Policy."--Nicodemus75 19:09, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Personally, I'd happily delete most schools but my reading of Wikipedia:Schools is that the only choose one of (polite|sensible|useful) procedure is to recognise that we differ on this and hence consensus to delete will not be reached, implying that vfd's should not normally be started. So I'm planning to vote keep in future (but only if it seems to be necessary) Dlyons493 22:53, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- When citing Wikipedia:Schools, please make clear to others who read your comments that it is not policy. In any case, it sets no specific criterion. It does say that "the only fitting criterion is how much verifiable, NPOV information can be found on the school." In this case, there isn't very much. And it's not even clear how verifiable it is. The article cites no sources at all. The website mentioned by Dlyons493 is not a website for the school, but a general website for the City of Espoo. I can verify from that website that the school exists, but I cannot, for example, verify that it has 360 pupils and 45 staff members, as the link for the school itself, http://www.edu.espoo.fi/~pkoulu2/englind.htm , does not currently seem to be functioning. Dpbsmith (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Pony Wikipedia:Schools needs revisiting. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:28, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Please make note that several Wikipedians have made requests that we keep these discussions civilized. We may not see eye-to-eye on what is important, but that is no reason to insult someone, their beliefs, or their contribution(s) to Wikipedia. This is a community driven project. Bahn Mi 21:58, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete as per WP:NOISE --Carnildo 22:56, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- What does this AfD have to do with spoken-word articles?--Nicodemus75 22:58, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Only slightly less than the repeated citations of Wikipedia:Schools --Carnildo 04:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- What does this AfD have to do with spoken-word articles?--Nicodemus75 22:58, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- The systematic bias against doctor's surgeries, churches, parks and supermarkets (etc) and in favour of primary schools should be addressed by requiring Dunc to write more articles about doctor's surgeries, churches, parks and supermarkets (etc), rather than wasting the time of dozens of editors and disrupting Wikipedia to promote a campaign of deletioncruft against perfectly good, factual, verifiable articles about schools. Keep. --Centauri 23:06, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Is this a record for most school nominations in a 4 day period and I Abstain got tired of this . --Aranda56 23:12, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. Please respect the consensus and stop nominating school. --Vsion 23:17, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no consensus about schools. If you believe I'm mistaken, please cite the relevant policy page. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:30, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd think there is a concensus with respect to mass-nominations and multi-nominations. --Nicodemus75 00:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- And your reference for this consensus is... where? Dpbsmith (talk) 13:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd think there is a concensus with respect to mass-nominations and multi-nominations. --Nicodemus75 00:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no consensus about schools. If you believe I'm mistaken, please cite the relevant policy page. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:30, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Wilful disruption. CalJW 00:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: what do you mean by "doctor's surgeries?" -- Kjkolb 01:14, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Brit-speak for a doctor's office. Brit "he's in surgery" = U.S. "he's taking office calls." Dpbsmith (talk) 13:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete A garden-variety school is a garden-variety school, Finnish or not. Nothing in this article convinces me that this is any more than an institution that opens at 8:30 and closes at 3:30. How many schools in Finland offer instruction in both Finnish and English? I'd guess the answer to that is "quite a few". Denni☯ 01:34, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- "consider not participating if: a nomination involves a topic with which you are unfamiliar. " Kappa 11:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, based on your own familiarity with schools in Finland, Kappa, would you say that it is usual or unusual for a school to offer instruction in both Finnish and English? Dpbsmith (talk) 13:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Very unusual, as far as I can tell. Kappa 14:09, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- "...as far as I can tell..." Consider not participating if: a nomination involves a topic with which you are unfamiliar. Denni☯ 01:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not depriving users of information on the basis of uniformed guesswork, unlike you. Kappa 20:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, we would be well and truly deprived if an article on this utterly non-notable school were to vanish. I can hear the wailing and the gnashing of teeth already. I think I'll go write an article on a daycare to help myself feel better. Denni☯ 03:48, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not depriving users of information on the basis of uniformed guesswork, unlike you. Kappa 20:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- "...as far as I can tell..." Consider not participating if: a nomination involves a topic with which you are unfamiliar. Denni☯ 01:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Very unusual, as far as I can tell. Kappa 14:09, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, based on your own familiarity with schools in Finland, Kappa, would you say that it is usual or unusual for a school to offer instruction in both Finnish and English? Dpbsmith (talk) 13:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- "consider not participating if: a nomination involves a topic with which you are unfamiliar. " Kappa 11:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - This is a common garden gnome school, with nothing notable at all, apart from the fact that it's a school. It will never get deleted however, because of the big majority needed to delete, and the fact that the keep voters are a bunch of organised extreme inclusionists, whereas anyone wanting to delete just doesn't care enough. Keep it up Dunc. - Hahnchen 03:23, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per Denni and I second Hahnchen. These keep votes are a bandwagon which never address the notability of the particular subject. Marskell 13:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, I see nothing wrong with this school article. — JIP | Talk 11:06, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Rename to proper capitalization and keep. Christopher Parham (talk) 23:50, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Neutralitytalk 01:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. *drew 07:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Consensus so far has been to keep schools (see Archive and Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep). ··gracefool |☺ 16:25, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no consensus about schools. If you believe I'm mistaken, please cite the relevant policy page. Wikipedia:Schools is not a policy page. It is not even a guideline. The link you provide is a link to an archived discussion of a failed attempt to reach a consensus. I ask everyone to strive for accuracy and objectivity when making statements about "consensus." Dpbsmith (talk) 19:38, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep as this is one in a series of several bad faith nominations made by someone with a deletionist agenda against schools. Bahn Mi 20:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. We should be encouraging this type of participation rather than wasting our time trying to remove good, encyclopedic information. Unfocused 22:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete nonencyclopedic --redstucco 09:13, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.