Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ralph Ledbetter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Left guide (talk) 14:50, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ralph Ledbetter

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Fails WP:NATHLETE. Ledbetter's professional career in European basketball was unremarkable and does not seem to have yielded coverage in German and Luxembourgish news. The currently listed sources are his entry in the Glenville State College Hall of Fame showering affiliated praise, a user comment from the DC Basketball Blog (not even the blog post itself), minor discussion of his single-game performance in The Glenville Mercury student newspaper, and a YouTube interview from the channel Alumni4life, a local varsity jackets retailer. While I found two other instances of Ledbetter's performance reported in the Glenville Mercury, neither instance bothered to mention his season-wide performance, much less broader commentary on him as an athlete/person. Being twice named to the First All-WVIAC Team is impressive, but for a NCAA Division II conference, that achievement seems below WP:NCOLLATH. ViridianPenguin🐧 (💬) 15:58, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Basketball, and Maryland. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Found some more coverage at [[1]], [[2]], [[3]], and [[4]]. Let'srun (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciate the identification of additional sources! I think the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and Indiana Gazette coverage when Ledbetter was playing in their respective areas is below the WP:NCOLLATH criterion of gaining "national media attention as an individual". Similarly, the Bedford County Press and Everett Press article is only a local newspaper reporting Saint Francis University's pride at recruiting Ledbetter. The Evening Sun article on Ledbetter's threat to not play at Crossland High School if transferred from Largo High School as part of D.C.'s racial integration is pretty interesting, though that coverage is not significant on him, nor did he follow through on that threat. ViridianPenguin🐧 (💬) 19:40, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent info! JoseyWales019 (talk) 22:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 04:37, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It's unclear to me whether finding these additional sources mean that the editors discussing them are arguing for a Keep or if they are just Neutral. Please BOLD your preferred outcome.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – I have improved the article substantially since the AfD nomination. Ralph Ledbetter had a 17-year professional basketball career in Germany and Luxembourg following a great college career at Glenville State, where he earned back-to-back First Team All-WVIAC honors, was named an NAIA Honorable Mention All-American, and was inducted into the school’s Hall of Fame in 2016. He was also named among “D.C. Basketball’s 100 Best Schoolboy Players of All Time” in a well-cited regional retrospective.

While full professional stats from his time overseas aren’t easily available due to the era and league coverage, his consistent presence on club rosters and recognition by Glenville and other institutions help verify the scope of his career. JoseyWales019 (talk) 10:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I want to give kudos to ViridianPenguin for the sources found. One of the articles I located was in German, and after an extensive search—consistent with my earlier comments about the scarcity of overseas records—this is likely all that can be found digitally. JoseyWales019 (talk) 10:28, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but only once WP:RS are found. Wynwick55gl (talk) 08:34, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

— Wynwick55gl (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. . Their argument seems pointless. The user has even made a userpage "self-identifying" as a SPA, making it seem more like a block evader than anything else. Geschichte (talk) 08:44, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Your response on Ralph’s AFD made me take a closer and that’s when I noticed the same editor also nominated Gary Hudgins for deletion. I initially agreed—until I revisited WP:MUSICBIO:

“Has been a member of a musical ensemble that is itself notable, or has performed on a recording that has been released by a notable artist or label.”

Hudgins played keyboards for George Clinton and the Brides of Funkenstein—both widely recognized, and other notable acts. That seems to meet the guideline, even without solo chart success.

Also worth noting: a Google search for him returns a Wikipedia result that says,

“This page does not exist. The deletion, protection, and move log for the page are provided below for reference.”

Clearly people are looking him up—and now there’s no article to help them. This needs to be resolved.

Given this, and questions about how the editor is tagging bios, I think the Hudgins page deserves another look. I’d be glad to help improve sourcing if it can be restored. JoseyWales019 (talk) 10:01, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Google result is for the since deleted draft that you erroneously made in Wikipedia namespace instead of draftspace, and it is not evidence that people are looking him up, nor is that our standard for notability. Not sure what you are quoting, as those words do not appear in WP:MUSICBIO. Criterion 5 is "has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels" (not satisfied), while Criterion 6 covers "an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles," which is also not met because Hudgins merely played with notable artists, rather than formally operating in ensembles with any of them. You are free to make a WP:request for undeletion, but without discovery of additional reliable sources showing significant coverage, I intend to subsequently nominate it for deletion at WP:AFD. ViridianPenguin🐧 (💬) 04:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My comment about people looking him up referred to the second result in a Google search — I was surprised to see it still show up after deletion, which made me revisit the topic. I now realize that was the deleted article I mistakenly created in article space rather than draftspace — that was unintentional and my mistake. I appreciate your explanation; it’s helped clarify some key points about how WP:N and WP:MUSICBIO are interpreted in practice. I’m still not entirely convinced Hudgins falls completely outside of Criterion 6, given his live and studio work with multiple well-documented acts, but I understand the sourcing bar is high. Thanks again for the clarification — this has definitely been a learning experience. – JoseyWales019 (talk) 04:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: reverting close by blocked user; reopening and relisting, acting in my individual capacity as an uninvolved administrator per WP:REOPEN,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 20:10, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Basketball, and Maryland. ViridianPenguin🐧 (💬) 15:34, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per the coverage provided by LetsRun. The Pittsburgh Post Gazette and Indiana Gazette articles provide more coverage than a simple WP:ROUTINE game summary, allowing for the subject to barely pass the WP:GNG threshold. Passage of GNG supersedes not meeting any criteria of a WP:SNG (such as NCOLLATH) as the latter explains situations in which a subject is likely to have been the subject of non-trivial media coverage. I do not consider the other sources brought up to count toward GNG, as they are routine, trivial, or non-independent. Frank Anchor 13:40, 9 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets GNG per above sources. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 14:41, 9 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: Just realized I never voted here. Keep with the coverage I found above. Let'srun (talk) 21:49, 9 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.