Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Republican In Name Only (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 01:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Republican In Name Only

WP:NEO, WP:BLP, WP:V among others Uncle Bungle (talk) 07:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The topic is a neologism, which as we all know should be avoided. I realize it is popular in the "blogosphere" but presently blogs are not the definitive source for the English lexicon.

The section general criteria lacks sources and therefore should be considered at best original research. In fact there are only six sources cited for the entire article, less than one per section. Two of those six are from blogs, which are considered self published sources. This has been a point of contention since the 2004 AFD and has not been addressed. It is unlikely that detailed, reliable sources will ever be found for this recently coined and undefined term.

Labeling individuals as RINO (but not limited to) Michael Bloomberg, Lindsey Graham and Chuck Hagel without citing sources is a violation of biographies of living persons. In that regard it is impossible to list any individual here as their accuser may be incorrect. In the words of Jimbo Wales We must get the article right.

Similar articles have survived AFDs, they should be considered separately. This article may have survived previous AFDs but I strongly urge you to consider that in the past three years, it has not improved.

Thank you. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 07:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep It's not just that "similar articles have survived AFDs"; this one has, and by a clear consensus. Above and beyond the landslide consensus at the previous AfD, the term is a well-documented term that has been in use for years, and is most certainly not a term that falls under the rubric of WP:NEO. This search of The New York Times archive finds 25 separate references, with the oldest use of the phrase going back to 1988 and the first use of "RINO" in 1995, hardly a neologism. This Google News Archive search finds 1,070 articles using the title term, with this link showing a timeline graph of usages from Google News Archive. The article provides ample reliable and verifiable sources to establish notability, and the hundreds upon hundreds of other sources clearly demonstrate notability. Alansohn (talk) 07:49, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The term is in common usage and if every article which could be improved was deleted then Wikipedia wouldn't have any articles left. Nick mallory (talk) 10:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The term has been in use since the mid 1990s, and name calling really does happen in politics. The article can user higher quality sources, but many WP:RS are available. Examples: Riordan '94 ([1], Chafee '06 [2], Riordan '02 [3][4], Spector '04 [5]. "RINO" is a POV label, like "extremist." That doesn't mean that the term can't be written about in encyclopedic, WP:NPOV terms. • Gene93k (talk) 11:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- comment. The article has substantial POV problems, but this is a job for cleanup, not deletion. There are plenty of reliable sources available to supply facts for balance. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It survived a previous AfD, with strong consensus. Enough said. Re-nominations shouldn't happen without very good reasons. I know consensus can change, but "nothing has changed" is the weakest possible reason for that. --Arcanios (talk) 12:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One can also find books that record people having been labelled as "Republican in Name Only". For examples: ISBN 0691025487 records how some Republican party activists wore "RINO" badges to a speech given on 1994-05-16 by then Los Angeles mayor Richard Riordan, to protest his close associations with Democrats. ISBN 0813337259 records the same. ISBN 0300108702 records how the Club for Growth labelled Steven LaTourette a RINO in 2003. ISBN 0534647685 records how the Club for Growth labelled Olympia Snow a RINO, and gives the reason why. All of these books manage to report the labelling neutrally. So clearly it is possible to do. Hit the edit button and edit the article. That button is there for more than just adding tags. Uncle G (talk) 12:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, widely used term in American political discourse. Please also see related AfD, which had a clear "Keep" consensus: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Democrat In Name Only (4th nomination). Lankiveil (talk) 13:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Keep - a few points - Deletion is never the answer for "an article that hasn't imporved in 3 years" thats why we have {{Sofixit}}. I personally have heard this mentioned in popular culture (a Brothers & Sisters episode) Sources seem to have been added. I am tempted to WP:SNOW this one... but I won't. Fosnez (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Clearly notable and clearly passes WP:V. WP:BLP and WP:NPOV issues must be monitored but that is not sufficient grounds for deleting this article. --Alfadog (talk) 15:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - Used by one non-bias legitimate source, but I imagine its usage by Human Events also served to make it a notable neologism. It needs a good clean up. Most of the refs. are not reliable or are there to support WP:SYNTH. --Evb-wiki (talk) 15:27, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Wikipedia is the only place I found that actually explained it well. It adds to the encyclopedia, which is my only condition for any article surviving an Afd process. -Animesouth (talk) 18:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - Yes, the term my be perjorative in political use (and it's use annoys me, personally), but I think this is an important topic for wikipedia. If it survives AfD, I'll be spending some time with it. Besides, it is not a neologism, people use it all the time. --RedShiftPA (talk) 22:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- From WP:NEO: "Neologisms are words and terms that have recently been coined, generally do not appear in any dictionary, but may be used widely or within certain communities." There is nothing inherently wrong with neologisms. RINO appears to be a notable one, so it is permissible Wikipedia content. --Evb-wiki (talk) 01:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Your quotation is accurate, and it indicates that even if a term is widely used, it is still a neologism. I was going to raise the same point myself. Also from WP:NEO: It may be natural, then, to feel that Wikipedia should have a page devoted to this new term, but this is not always the case.. --151.124.247.200 (talk) 02:24, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Neither of the two cited "reasons why articles on (or titled with) neologisms may not be appropriate" apply here. The article is not a mere dictionary definition and the term is verifiable. It is also not a protologism. --Evb-wiki (talk) 02:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - Verifability requires books and papers about the term—not books and papers that use the term. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 19:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. WP:NEO is about creating our own neologisms, or focusing on ones that are transient and not picked up by those other than their creators. This one is clearly not in that league: it was the term successfully used by a group to frame a shift in the Republican Party, rejecting "Big Tent" Republicanism in favor of a more narrowly defined ideological party. - Jmabel | Talk 05:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If there are people called RINOs without citation, then that should be either cited for or removed. But clearly, something like Human Events is a rock-solid citation for this sort of thing.

BTW, I count 15 citations, but perhaps most were added after this discussion was started. - Jmabel | Talk 05:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per everyone but the nominator. Is it snowing yet? Edward321 talk) 19:17, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks like we missed our chance for a white Christmas. Alansohn (talk) 05:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Mine was white. I was buried under a mountain of random political commentary masquerading as reliable sources. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 19:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there so much concern over the whether it should be deleted based on what type of word it is? There are far to many cases of deleted articles that are perfectly relevant and accurate. This article is good. It definitely complies with the rules for deletion. Delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andiburns (talk • contribs) 05:20, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

keep We need to be careful about associating anyone as a RINO and make sure that it is a well-sourced accusation to a notable source. However, the subject is itself obviously notable and encyclopedic with many sources discussing the term. There's no NEO issue since we have reliable secondary sources that discuss the term. I believe that covers everything. JoshuaZ (talk) 20:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep* I agree whole-heartedly with the above editor, JoshuaZ; also, consider that the RINO article is balanced by the existence of the DINO article, and that to delete RINO may lead to the deletion of DINO. Regards. ProfessorPaul 01:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
comment The enthusiasm for this article is encouraging and embodies the spirit of Wikipedia. Please remember that AFD is not a vote. Any AFD for "DINO" was for that article, not this one. However popular the phrase is in the "blog-o-sphere", it's still recently coined and not discussed beyond various weblogs and editorials of political pundits. Wikipedia is riddled with articles which define terms while circumventing WP:NOR by piecing together bits from different reliable sources. Has anyone written a book or article exploring the phenomenon of "RINO"? I'm afraid "The Drudge Report" or "The Daily Kos" is not in the same league as the Kennedy School of Government. I'm looking forward to the final judgment on this. Best regards. --Uncle Bungle (talk) 19:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.