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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samir Becic

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wifione Message 11:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Samir Becic

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Samir Becic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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I see no evidence that this individual meets notability criteria. The article itself reads like a résumé and/or puff piece. The sources all appear to be local media from the Houston area, such as KHOU-TV, the Chronicle, and Health & Fitness Sports Magazine (with whom it appears the subject of the article has some sort of entrepreneurial and/or editorial relationship, though I cannot be certain), and any coverage that isn't written by the subject himself appears to be trivial. Ultimately, I see no actual third-party reliable sources that convey encyclopedic notability. Kinu t/c 04:34, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Kinu, I was reading this wikipedia article and I noticed that this man has both national and international recognition. The national magazine Men's Journal awarded him among their top 100 trainers in America, another national magazine, More Magazine, put his work and methods among other the top celebrity trainers in the US in an article. Currently, the Houston Chronicle is the ninth largest newspaper in the US which is also very significant. I also found several links for his international exposure through various newspapers and magazines throughout Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.37.246 (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC) — 74.124.37.246 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Hi, after reading this article it is clear to me that Samir Becic has local,rigional,national and international recognition including National More Magazine, National Magazine Men's Journal, Houston Chronicle (as one of the largest news papers in the country)and many others. I have also checked Health and Fitness Sport Magazine and it apears to be a reliable source and the biggest health and fitness magazine in Texas. There is no evidence that Samir owns the magazine. Furthermore, I found more links on the web that support his resume and achievements. I personaly think that links that are included as a suport for the Wiki page are not the strongest ones he has. On the web there are many more links, which serve as a proof of his carrier. My suggestion is to improve this article and not delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.60.228.72 (talk) 23:19, 26 October 2012 (UTC) — 66.60.228.72 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • After reviewing this Wikipedia article, I found plenty of evidence for national and international exposure for Samir Becic and his work. National Moor Magazine placed him among top celebrity trainers and also his Resync Method. National Magazine Men's Journal voted him among top 100 trainers in America. Houston Chronicle one of the largest newspapers in America is mentioning his work. Houston Health and Fitness Sports Magazine votes him "Houston Health Warrior" togther with Dr. Larry Kwak (Times Magazine one of the most influential people in the world 2010). Rudy Tomjanovich NBA, Rockets and LA Lakers Coach, Olympic Gold Medalist National Coach calls him the best fitness trainer in the world. I also found several other links that support his resume moreso than the existing links on the Wikipedia page. European magazines: Slobodna Bosna, Nezavisne Novine, Azra Magazine and many more are featuring him in exclusive cover stories. After reviewing this article it appears that Samir Becic has a variety of recognition from local to international. On many ocassions I saw his name appear in the same articles with World Champion George Foreman and Chuck Norris. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.154.221 (talk • contribs) — 64.134.154.221 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Having had another look, I think you mean this one - listing both Foreman and the subject as guests at a function. That's about the most tenuous connection between two people that I have ever seen in an discussion about notability. I was once in London at exactly the same time as Queen Elizabeth II... Stalwart111 (talk) 02:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The content in this Wikipedia article originated from creditable U.S and International sources. The context in this journal is a timeline of Samir Becic life and skills of a WorldClass Fitness trainer. Over the years, Samir Becic web search analytics have reached an outstanding number of hits and it is by this nature that Houston Press has decided to help aid Mr. Becic's life unfold via Wikipedia. Information related to Samir Becic are sited in popular magazines, journals, print articles, web sources, foundations, just to name a few throughout the world. The history and levels of expertise of Samir Becic are worthy of history notation. Please consider the content and their supporters to be enough means for approval. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Houston News Press (talk • contribs) 02:12, 29 October 2012 (UTC) — Houston News Press (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Wikipedia is not the place to WP:PROMO your client / affiliate. A large number of website hits does not confer notability (see WP:N) which must be verified (see WP:V) by reliable sources (see WP:RS). The number of "supporters" someone has does not confer notability. If Houston Press is the journalistic enterprise you suggest they are, then they should "site" (sic - surely an actual journalist would know the difference between "cite" and "site") the reliable sources that provide significant coverage of the subject. Also, you should be aware that Wikipedia is not a democracy so getting other people to come to this page to "vote" for the article is really quite pointless and no-one believes they are genuine. Deletion (or not) is determined by an uninvolved administrator on the strength of arguments made citing Wikipedia policy. Spam votes which argue the article should be kept because they like it will not be given a lot of weight. Under the circumstances, this essay is probably worth reading. Stalwart111 (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - with service medals to each of the spectacular meat-puppet vote-spammers. What ridiculous rubbish. One of the claimed "sources" is a recipe for a drink which the author "borrowed" from the subject's Facebook page. At least 8 of the sources are from Health and Fitness Magazine which openly states at the end of their articles "Health & Fitness Sports Magazine is a proud media sponsor for Becic’s nationwide Health and Fitness Revolution movement". Obviously not independent. One of the TV "sources" is a screen-shot without any substantive coverage at all. Others don't mention the subject at all. There's a couple of foreign language sources there, but reliability seems suspect (given some appear to be health "blogs", though on news media sites, so...) and "significant coverage" would be questionable. That the subject was named one of the best 100 trainers in a particular year is credible (despite the fact that the "source" verifying the claim is hosted on the subject's own website) though this isn't particularly unique - as demonstrated by the fact that there are obviously 99 other people who could claim the same thing. On balance, I don't think the subject is sufficiently notable enough to warrant an article. That aside, the main contributor to the article (and his/her friends) should have a look at WP:USERNAME given at least one of them implies an association with a media outlet, despite the fact that said "outlet" seems only interested in this article. Stalwart111 (talk) 02:38, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the Azra article appears to use this Wikipedia article as a reference, an argument that it conveys any notability is circular and fallacious. The other link also hardly mentions him at all. It's not about being partial; it's about finding significant coverage in third-party reliable sources, which has yet to be done. --Kinu t/c 21:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kinu is spot on. Further, nobody is suggesting More Magazine isn't in and of itself a "reliable source". But the problem with the More Magazine piece cited in the article is that it isn't about the subject. It's about Victoria Osteen and her fitness regime which happens to include training with the subject. But the subject doesn't inherit notability from his clients, no matter how notable they are in their own right. That's like suggesting a teenager who served the US President at Burger King qualifies for an encyclopaedic entry in Wikipedia because he served the President. The "significant coverage" required to meet WP:GNG needs to be about the subject. It doesn't have to be about the subject only (it can reference his work, his clients, etc) but it needs to be coverage of him, not coverage of someone else with a passing mention of him. Stalwart111 (talk) 22:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The titel of the More Magazine article "How Stars Get in Shape Celebrities—and the personal trainers behind their famous bodies—tell all". The "celebrities" and "trainers" as well as trainers workout "Methods". This article is at least as much about the trainer as it is about the celebrities! Every Trainer in this article is US and World famous. Using analogy "That's like suggesting a teenager who served the US President at Burger King qualifies for an encyclopaedic entry in Wikipedia because he served the President" - No comment !!! "If you've ever tried to pick a trainer, you know that there is no Zagat guide that tells you which ones are the very best. That is, until now. This summer Men's Journal polled 11,000 certified trainers in the 20 largest cities in the country. After we tallied the votes, we got off almost a thousand phone calls and e-mails to researchers, fitness directors, gym managers, doctors, and physical therapists to double- and triple-check the nominees. Here's the definitive list of America's top fitness gurus".- MENS JOURNAL " In today's society we can probably find hundreds if not thousands of fitness experts, personal trainers, and gurus that know everything and have done everything. In the fitness world a few stand out like personal fitness pioneer Jack LaLane who inspired an entire nation to eat better and exercise more. Continuing with that same excellence is renewed trainer and fitness expert Samir Becic"-UNDEFEATED Magazine ( Samir on the Front cover) HOUSTON'S HEALTH WARRIORS "Houston’s health and medical scene is one of the biggest and best in the country. So it’s no surprise that the city is home to some of the most talented doctors, specialists and health advocates. Here are a few locals worth noting for their expertise and dedication to their field. Samir Becic is a man on a mission. His quest: to make Texas one of the fittest and healthiest states in the country by 2015. It’s a tall order, especially with Texas holding five of the top 10 slots in last year’s “Fattest Cities in America” rankings, but if anyone can make it happen, it’s Becic. Not only has he received several honors as Bally’s “No. 1 Fitness Trainer in the World,” but Becic’s energy and enthusiasm for leading a fit and healthy lifestyle are nothing short of contagious. With the establishment of his national movement, Health and Fitness Revolution (HFR), he is leaving no stone unturned, traveling to big cities and small towns all across Texas to offer seminars, health fairs and educational materials to various schools, corporations, organizations and even politicians."- HEALTH AND FITNESS SPORT MAGAZINE

SAMIR BEČIĆ: "Bosansko-američki fitness guru"Slobodna Bosna (English translation: 'Free Bosnia') is an investigative weekly newspaper based in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.37.246 (talk) 01:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing this Wikipedia article (again and again...) from creditable sources,Samir Becic notability appears to be strong. He has a weekly Health Talk on KSBJ 89.3- very credible Radio Station.

And this one is very strong(just one of many): "If you've ever tried to pick a trainer, you know that there is no Zagat guide that tells you which ones are the very best. That is, until now. This summer Men's Journal polled 11,000 certified trainers in the 20 largest cities in the country. After we tallied the votes, we got off almost a thousand phone calls and e-mails to researchers, fitness directors, gym managers, doctors, and physical therapists to double- and triple-check the nominees. Here's the definitive list of America's top fitness gurus".- MENS JOURNAL

First of all, if you're going to post, please post at the bottom of the page, to keep things chronological and also to avoid misrepresentation the rationale for deletion at the top of the page. That being said, in case you didn't notice, you've already said so above (and, yes, quite frankly, based on your style, grammar, etc., I'm fairly certain that all of you "independent IPs" are the same person). You're starting to sound like a broken record and you're not helping your cause. I'll cut to the chase: per WP:GNG, we need significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. You must show that these sources exist. Posting blurbs of questionable relevance, depth, and neutrality does not help. --Kinu t/c 13:41, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For your information Kinu, I only post from one computer! I don't assume, don't give my own opinions, and don't have any agendas. I'm only trying to improve this article base on facts and credible sources. I found more links but considering the past I hope that you don't already have your opinion set even before looking at them. [1], [2],[3],[4],[5], http://www.healthandfitnessmag.com/magazine-sections/health-and-wellness/the-need-for-change],http://dish-houston.squarespace.com/health-dish/2012/8/30/fitness-politics-religion-and-other-things.html],[6] and much more....... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.37.246 (talk) 22:00, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Of the seven links you've posted: (a) three are exactly the same interview (I think?), rehashed; (b) three are articles by him, not about him; (c) the PDF is a source of dubious independence (he's "part of the Chill team", which means what?) and reliability, and doesn't say much of any depth anyway. If you're going to keep posting sources, please read the links above for the notability guideline and reliable sources. Please don't continue to throw sources here without actually taking a moment to ask yourself, "are these useful?" So far, I'm seeing nothing, but I'll leave it to other editors to decide as well. As for an agenda, I only have one: help to maintain an encyclopedia that contains encyclopedic subjects. I apologize if my comment about multiple IPs offended you, but when multiple unregistered editors suddenly discover a deletion discussion after never having edited Wikipedia and chime in in a similar fashion, eyebrows are raised. --Kinu t/c 22:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kinu, is this posting useful? http://books.google.com/books?id=bIjGXM9eJMkC&pg=PP12&lpg=PP12&dq=samir+becic+breaking+down+the+barriers&source=bl&ots=o7By7zRs2o&sig=pKExLQcDeW_7SAuyW7Snf8vBpxE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_qWQULbEIMjo2QX1rYCwCA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw
While it is a first-person narrative (again, by the subject, not about him), the fact that it is a book might make it useful in this context. However, I am having trouble finding more information about it. Can you post the ISBN, publisher, etc., so we can determine if it is a reliable source? --Kinu t/c 13:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ISBN 160013128X — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.37.246 (talk) 17:53, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Based on that ISBN or the other one provided at the Google Books link above, I am neither able to verify the existence of this book anywhere nor find any information about it, other than what is stated at the Google Books entry, which states "Publisher: Samir Becic" (indicating it is likely self-published and not a WP:RS). --Kinu t/c 19:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I don't want to point any fingers, but your IP geolocates to Houston. Likewise, an IP from your address block (only the last octet is different) has edited the user page User:Samirbecic in the past, which contains similar content. Are you the subject of the article or have some connection to him (client, etc.)? If so, while there is admittedly no way for anyone else to confirm or deny it, it would be wise and in good faith to declare any conflict of interest here. Again, this isn't meant to sound accusatory, but revealing any vested interest you have in the article would be helpful in this discussion. --Kinu t/c 21:00, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

With all do respect Kinu, you're collaboration on Samir's article has been disrespectful. You ridiculed each person that has provided feedback with you witty comments and your misinterpretation of the truth. I'm sure you'll have an essay to write on 'disrespectful', 'truth', 'misinterpretation', but I would ask that you save your words for another page that needs the comments. The links in this article are worth reading but I understand your job is to skim through sites and not really read what you called "ridiculous rubbish". If you really researched his work, it would not take minutes before a response, it would take days. I'm sure that you see a ton of content a day that people try to push passed you, and I understand that a lot is junk, but if you lived in Houston, if you met the people whose lives were changed because of Samir's work, if you understood who he is as a person, if you took just a few minutes to listen what people all over the world are saying about him, then I think your opinions would be different. I've been researching Samir since his move to Houston and he is one person that will go down in history as someone who has help shape America. It may also surprise you that Samir's training and global fitness challenge is not for profit. Samir wealth comes from the lives he changes. Sounds cliché but its the truth (I won't site (cite') this- because it's in the materials we provided reference too). I'm sure you view hundreds of wikipedia pages a week, but based on your responses it appears you're knowledge on Sports Fitness is weak. Samir is a great athlete with courage and skill to make America fit. Before you respond back, I would ask that you transfer our article to someone more knowledgeable in sports fitness because they will have more respect for an individual with such a long history and passion for shaping the world. Thank you in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Houston News Press (talk • contribs) 02:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You say "if you lived in Houston"... well, I don't, and neither do most of Wikipedia's readers. Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia, and a subject must meet notability guidelines to be included. I've looked at every single link provided and I did my own research before nominating this article for deletion. I've also looked at every single suggested source that has been posted on this discussion page. I have also posted a link to WP:GNG which states there needs to be significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. I see interviews, self-published materials, and cursory mentions of the subject such as his associations with notable individuals, but little that actually qualifies as "significant coverage" in a "reliable source" that is "independent" by Wikipedia's definition. That's my two cents... take it or leave it, because as with every deletion discussion, the community will decide the merits of this article based on its sources or lack thereof... such is our process. Likewise, if you can point out where I used the phrase "ridiculous rubbish" in reference to the sources you or anyone has provided, I would appreciate it, because to my knowledge I never have. Resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of actually addressing the concerns herein won't convince me to change my mind, and it only weakens any momentum to possibly salvage this article. Thus, I will not participate in any further discussion here unless it is civil and relevant. --Kinu t/c 02:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I used the term "ridiculous rubbish" in relation to the vote-spam which was silly ("ridiculous") garbage ("rubbish"). The comment did not relate to the links or suggested references or to the subject. I was critical of the references (or lack of them) but remain happy to consider anything that actually meets the criteria at WP:GNG. Stalwart111 (talk) 05:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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