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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sebastian Cole

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The debate is leaning that way, but more importantly, do no harm. Stifle (talk) 16:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sebastian Cole

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Sebastian Cole (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Page deletion was requested by the page's author at the apparent request of the subject; however, because other authors have contributed, WP:CSD#G7 doesn't technically apply. IMO, the subject is of such marginal notability that we should respect the request for deletion, especially given the possible BLP concerns, but bringing it here for consensus one way or the other.  – iridescent 16:03, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, Satyr, point taken. — Becksguy (talk) 21:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Author's Second Response: I have been going over the notability guidelines and have reached the current (if hardly final) conclusion: according to Wikipedia standards, a marginally notable person who has requested removal of their entry should have their request respected. Great. However, while Sebastian Cole's notability may seem limited, the fact is that he won (with however many other people-- that's irrelevant) a national, competitive award in a recognized category, and while "only" winning one such award may make him seem "marginally" notable, it makes him far more notable than someone who got, say, an honorable mention. Inasmuch as Wikipedia is intended as a repository first and foremost for notability, this individual meets that criterion (though he may want to string me up personally for saying this about him, and probably will once he reads this). Wikipedia has decided that winners of GayVN awards are sufficiently notable to have their names (their "stage" names, mind you-- Sebastian Cole is not this actor's real name) listed on the GayVN page. Given that, and regardless of the individual's request (I realize this must seem very confusing, as I am the person who originally authored the page and am now speaking here on behalf of the actor who would like it removed), the complete removal of this entry recreates an information vacuum on Wikipedia which, if not filled in now and accurately will probably be filled at some point soon by someone (if not me). As a counterexample, Becoming Playboy's "Pet of the Month" (see discussion [[1]] is not a genuinely competitive award and does not by itself merit notability; winning (and even winning and sharing) an award for "Best Group Scene" IS a competitive award, and this individual WON (yes, shared) it. This seems to be the simplest reason for keeping the entry, albeit in a pared-down and very impersonal format, which is how his adult film career is already recorded in other places on the Internet. If Wikipedia had decided long ago that the adult film industry was unworthy of encyclopedic consideration, then this entry would obviously be inappropriate... Given that Wikipedia has made a different choice (by long-established consensus), then this is not the case. Even if Sebastian tears me a third corn shoot when all is said and done (let me re-assert that I am personally completely ambivalent about this page-- if it stays, I get credit for contributing to the world of knowledge that exists on Wikipedia but may lose a friendship; if it goes, the world of knowledge will be darker but Sebastian won't be upset with me-- I really should have checked with him first, I know, and I'm in a pickle now because I didn't, but whatever, that's my issue). I am trying to reach a reflective and Wiki-consistent conclusion that does not take any of my own intentions into consideration, and right now I guess I am leaning more towards keep based on the simplest and most internally consistent argument I can come up with. Yes?? -- KDS4444Talk--KDS4444 15:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very thoughtful comment. Kudos. We can always keep the article, but strip the biographical details. — Becksguy (talk) 08:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I think we have to move away from a belief that Wikipedia's notability guidelines are solid, immovable rules for inclusion. These guidelines merely provide help to show what sort of thing is and is not acceptable - it's not a court of law, precedents don't apply - it's about consensus. It's not a case of simply looking at what it says in the rulebook - this is the dignity of another human being we are talking about, and an argument based on the notability guidelines alone won't cut it. Remember: Wikipedia does not have firm rules. Let's allow this guy the privacy and dignity he has requested. – Toon(talk) 16:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Subject doesn't want an article, he's of marginal notability. Have some respect. Our project is not going to suffer for not having this bio. The world will be okay. لennavecia 16:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Author's third (final) comment: "Fine by me". iridescent, Can you go ahead and remove? This page has been up for awhile, and though I have no doubt that someone someday will recreate this entry, and though several people have argued for its inclusion, perhaps now is simply not the time. We are human, we can choose. Sebastian would rather not have a Wikipedia entry, and in the end, above all desire for accuracy and intention towards completeness, maybe this deserves more respect than anything. -- KDS4444Talk

--KDS4444 16:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  • Weak delete; this, again is another case which illustrates why verifiability and not "notability" (in the sense of importance) ought to be our inclusion criteria. The GayVN is a significant award, and it is a worthy ambition for an encylopaedia to have entries on every winner. However, all we seem to be able to verify here is that the individual won the award, and a few incidental details from the IAFD. I've looked for reliable sources that include some detail about this individual's life, and could not find anything, WP:GNG-fulfilling or not. Although I firmly believe that moralizing about what the ethical thing to do in these situations has no place in an encyclopaedia, we cannot have BLP's whose basic content is unverifiable, because to do so is a disservice to our readers as we would be propagating bad information. I would much rather that the first Google hit is the straightforward, minimalist IAFD entry rather than a speculative Wikipedia article of questionable veracity. So, the ideal thing to do here would be to redirect to List of GayVN winners, where a single verifiable line of information could be included, but in the absence of that list, and of a minimal amount of coverage in reliable sources, we must delete, "notability" be damned. the skomorokh 17:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Per SatyrTN's input (it was said best...and first!). Ecoleetage (talk) 03:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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