- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Electricity on Shabbat. Once we strip away the original research its clear that there are not the sources for a substantial article and a section elsewhere would be better Spartaz Humbug! 06:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Shabbat clock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
A Shabbat Clock is nothing more than a timer that's plugged into an outlet. (See these images) It just so happens that these timers are used for the purposes described in the article, and in fact may be colloquially referred to as "Shabbat Clocks," but there is no evidence that such a product exists per se. Neologism perhaps? -shirulashem(talk) 20:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge to Electricity on Shabbat. I get the concept, that a timer can be set in advance of the Jewish Sabbath, since electricity is not to be turned on or off in some observations of the Sabbath. That doesn't mean the timer is unique, only that a person can set it to fit their preference. It's not much different from someone setting an alarm on one's watch to alert him to a scheduled prayer time, or to wake someone up in time to get ready to go to a worship service.
I recommend merging this and Shabbat lamp to the parent article as well. Mandsford (talk) 20:41, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] - Merge, but such clocks do exist: they're built into every modern electronic range, and aren't simple timers: they can only be used to switch off a range and keep it from switching on for 24 hours once a week. (Mine does this, and can't be gamed to work any other day than Friday/Saturday, unless you want to constantly change the date and mess up your daylight savings time.) I do think that information would be better placed in Electricity on Shabbat, however. --NellieBly (talk) 11:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- NellieBly, I think you are talking about the Sabbath mode feature on some ovens. The Shabbat clock article is about timing devices that plug into an outlet and then you can plug something like a lamp into the device. See these images for what the article is discussing. -shirulashem(talk) 11:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- My old range had a sabbath mode so I think you're right and I apologize for the confusion, but this new range I've just bought seems to have a separate little processor - you put in your ___location and time zone and it automatically shuts off ten minutes before Shabbat begins. It is different than the clock mentioned in the article, though, so maybe I am talking apples and oranges. (My kitchen range has a more powerful processor than my first personal computer. How strange is that?) --NellieBly (talk) 05:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep and do not merge This article is long enough that it warrants a separate article. The use of Shabbat clocks under that name and phenomenon has been discussed in several books dating back several decades, even discussing whether or not the practice of their use has been allowed or not. These devices are often marketed as Shabbat clocks rather than timers. Xyz7890 (talk) 00:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Xyz7890, do you have any reliable sources showing there is such a thing as a Shabbat clock? -shirulashem(talk) 01:20, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not have any of the books in front of me right now. But I think I can recall reading about it in the book To Be a Jew, A Guide to Jewish Observance in Contemporary Life by Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin, 1972, 1991 Basic Books, ISBN 0-465-0863-2, among others. I do not remember the specific page numbers, otherwise I would provide them here. Xyz7890 (talk) 04:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Herein lies the problem. If content on Wikipedia does not have reliable sources, the burden of proof lies on the editor who wants to keep the content to produce the sources. -shirulashem(talk) 13:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not have any of the books in front of me right now. But I think I can recall reading about it in the book To Be a Jew, A Guide to Jewish Observance in Contemporary Life by Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin, 1972, 1991 Basic Books, ISBN 0-465-0863-2, among others. I do not remember the specific page numbers, otherwise I would provide them here. Xyz7890 (talk) 04:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. —Thryduulf (talk) 00:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Plenty of Google Books references to this. Jclemens (talk) 00:26, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Plenty? There are only 9, and 3 of them can't even be viewed. -shirulashem(talk) 01:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge without prejudice At this time it seem that Electricity on Shabbat in Jewish law or Time switch may be better suited to deal this this information, but it is possible that this could be expanded to warrant a full article. The fact that there is a Hebrew version of the article is a strong indication that is is notable (The hebrew wikipedia is exceptionally deletionist). Jon513 (talk) 11:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. As pointed out by user:jclemens, the concept is notable.--Pink Bull (talk) 03:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge to Electricity on Shabbat. 96.10.153.29 (talk) 04:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.