Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shit happens (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete or transwiki voters bring forward that this is essentially a slang dict-def per WP:NOT#DICTIONARY per the second argument there. A small majority believes that the phrase is enough of a cultural phenomenon to warrant an article that can be verified, and built without original research. In either case, there is no consensus to delete the article. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shit happens

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This article serves primarily as a coatrack for trivia. -Neitherday (talk) 19:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki to wiktionary, removing all the trivia and uses but keeping any useful information about the etymology —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξ φ 19:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki. The article here is a vast indiscriminate collection of trivial references. WilliamH (talk) 20:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki per last 2 comments archanamiya · talk 20:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A transwiking doesn't make sense in my opinion. Tavix (talk) 23:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep possibly rename as " 'shit happens' in popular culture. A sufficiently important phrase and used widely enough to merit discussion here.DGG (talk) 00:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Keep happens I agree that shit happens in popular culture, particularly in Wikipedia. Vulgar, yes, but it's the modern day equivalent to "That's life" or "C'est la vie". It reflects a philosophy of not getting too angry about those things that are beyond our control. It certainly won't survive as an ipc article, nor would we lose anything culturally if the pop culture references part were, uh, eliminated. Mandsford (talk) 15:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

yes, I deliberately left my wording ambiguous. Thanks for appreciating it. DGG (talk) 21:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed I did! I think we're pretty well in agreement on i.p.c. articles. Mandsford (talk) 01:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Both that's life and c'est la vie go to disambiguation pages. Neither has an article dedicated to the phrase itself and that is how it should be per WP:NOT#DICTIONARY.
- Incidentally, an article on the phrase "C'est la vie" was the subject of a June 2007 AfD, got nuked, and ended up being the pseudo-disambig we have now. The fact that it ended up becoming a disambig anyway is (to me) sufficient indication of its more-than-just-a-word nature. -- Fullstop (talk) 13:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki per WP:NOT#DICTIONARY #2. It would be an awful stretch to make an article about a phrase that isn't OR. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 02:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep Most, if not all, of trivia section has to go, but the Supreme Court of Georgia case may just be enough to push this beyond a mere dictionary definition to a legitimate article.--FreeKresge (talk) 15:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The Georgia case had more to do with "shit" than "shit happens", as it was the word "shit" that gave offense. The phrase as a whole is only a minor aspect of the case, not having anything to do with the case other than being the context in which "shit" appeared. There isn't anything else about the case that is relevant to the shit happens article, leaving only a trivial mention of it being on the bumper sticker. -Neitherday (talk) 15:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to (subsection in) Randomness and incorporate the DukeU/UTenn studies (cf Psychology Today, May/Jun 95 in a more encyclopedic fashion. And either drop the trivia (being an OR and vandalism magnet), or deal with it as DGG suggests. -- Fullstop (talk) 15:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Already in Wiktionary, so delete per WP:WINAD. Stifle (talk) 18:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article expresses both a notable philosophy and a notable catch-phrase. It needs editing, but not deletion. It merits more than just a dictionary entry, because the phrase has history and cultural relevance. And the phrase has been the subject of litigation in the United States relating to the First Amendment. Examples of similar articles: shit, fuck, fuddle duddle, Spieprzaj dziadu! ¿Por qué no te callas?, Mission Accomplished, I did not have sexual relations with that woman, and I like Ike. COGDEN 18:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
keep Article needs work, but a notable enough phrase with potential for expanding on origins, etc. --BrucePodger (talk) 21:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A good article about a term summarizing an existential philosophy of long standing with several good references. More than a dictionary definition. Edison (talk) 01:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As someone noted, both C'est la vie and That's Life are (semi-)disambig pages. Perhaps 'Shit happens' could be turned into a semi-disambig along the same lines? Sort of with a brief explanation at the top (I like Mandsford's summary), followed by a "Examples of usage include..." pseudo-disambig? -- Fullstop (talk) 13:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
keep. Trivia to b culled mercilessly. `'Míkka >t 03:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Trim the trivia; increase mention of its use in society and commerce (popularity of saying on printed shirts, bumper stickers, etc.), controversies, widely-used variants, and so forth. B.Wind (talk) 04:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.