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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tactical frivolity

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. Strictly by counting noses, this would be a straight keep, but some of the "keep" !votes were given somewhat less weight. NAC—S Marshall Talk/Cont 08:28, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tactical frivolity

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Tactical frivolity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
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Nominating on behalf of 24.22.141.252, who writes that the article "violates core policies, see WP:V, WP:CITE, WP:NOR - for all we know, this is copyvio or just made up".  Skomorokh  11:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Sources exist in all the specialized Google searches. Abductive (reasoning) 19:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Abductive - the number of Google News and Books results are enough to demonstrate that this is a notable term. Robofish (talk) 22:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Google hits seem to be 1) mirrors of Wikipedia 2) a few activist sites, e.g.[1], which don't meet WP:RS 3) a few passing mentions that some protesters used this term. It would probably be accurate to state, "Tactical frivolity is a term used by some activists to describe one method of protest…" but Wikipedia is not a guide to activist lingo, and I'm not clear that enough reliable sources exist to support an article. Here is where one might start, but all the sources seem to be quoting Pink Silver, not using "Tactical Frivolity" as a subject in its own right (though I don't rule out that you might find one that does). I really don't care if the title Tactical Frivolity is redlinked or not, but I'd like to see what is there supported by reliable sources, as it currently isn't, and some evidence of notability besides a few fringe groups.24.22.141.252 (talk) 23:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I rewrote the article hewing closely to the cited sources.[2] As we see, there simply isn't much there - in the first instance, the story doesn't even state that the (grand total of thirteen) protesters ever made it to Prague, leaving us with a term used by one hazily-defined group ("Pink and Silver bloc") for its unusual conduct at a single demonstration. If there's more here, by all means say so, and add it.24.22.141.252 (talk) 19:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, I'm not sure yet if this is a legit topic. Is it really only one group that is responsible for all instances of the term? Abductive (reasoning) 23:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • So far as I can discern, yes, it's just one group. I should add that the linked video shows (I think) that the group of thirteen mentioned in the first source cited did reach Prague, and they generally match the descriptions of the same group found in Genoa the next year.24.22.141.252 (talk) 04:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • What is the name of this group? Abductive (reasoning) 08:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • The first cited article (Vidal 2000) calls them "Carnivalistas";[3] it’s unclear to me whether this was the name of the group at that time (if there was one,) or if this is what Vidal decided to call them. The second (Hari 2001) calls them the "Pink and Silver bloc."[4] The third (Rae 2005) does not give a name,[5] though it seems clear - and you're free to label this as my original research - that he’s talking about the same crowd. The fourth, Hari (2005), gives Pink Fairies as the group's own name ("Or they were groups like - my favourite - the Pink Fairies (dressed as their name demands), who preached the doctrine of 'tactical frivolity.'")[6] Some books which discuss this, which I've not yet closely examined, call them Pink and Silver bloc, Pink Bloc, or Pink Fairies.[7] I encourage anyone here to follow up on these and add to what I've learned from the cited news items; perhaps a clearer picture will emerge. (We can also observe a discrepancy in Hari's own reports (2005) credits the Pink Fairies with the "mass laughing session," but (2001) attributes this to Situationists.)24.22.141.252 (talk) 09:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Look at the books that use the expression. The 1917 revolution in Latvia‎ - Page 71 by Andrew Ezergailis - History - 1974 - 281 pages ... applied only to the unstratified peasantry.54 The usual assumption about Lenin's tactical frivolity on the peasant question in 1917 can be overstressed Dream Focus 14:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Fairly important counter culture term some of our readers will be interested in. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete The fact that an adjective/noun phrase exists in several books does not make it a "thing." Is there a Wikipedia article on unbound enthusiasm or furious activity? It hasn't been established that this is an legitimate meme and not someone's attempt to manufacture a meme by way of Wikipedia. -PorkHeart (talk) 21:32, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into civil disobedience (as a new section, even!) or nonviolent resistance or even protest. It doesn't have to be forgotten via a delete, but it's not as if people are doing this everyday, either. SithToby (talk) 09:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are protests on offer on the streets of London every single day , and per improvements to the article supported by reliable sources, tactical frivolity is now a tried and trusted protest technique. Granted some of these daily protests are small beer, but have a look at the new BBC video to see the massive scale tactical frivolity is sometimes practiced on. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence you added is, “By 2007, in an article by journalist John Harris about protests against the air industry, tactical frivolity was described as a "tried and trusted" protest technique.”[9] This sounds like Mr. Harris is calling "tactical frivolity…a 'tried and trusted' protest technique," doesn't it? But here's what the article actually says: "Meanwhile, a group of drummers bash out what may or may not be a samba rhythm - an example, says one protester, of a tried-and-tested technique known as 'tactical frivolity'." A single anonymous protester is not a reliable source for the tried-and-trueness of "tactical frivolity." What the article does establish is that at least one unnamed protester used this term in 2007.24.22.141.252 (talk) 20:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lets be clear that this article isnt about the phrase "tactical frivolity" - its about the humorous non violent protest method, which our sources show was undisputedly practiced on a massive scale around the scene of G8 meetings both in 2001 and 2005. Even if youre right about Harris, there was no risk of seriously misleading anyone, as it is a tried and trusted technique.
The stress of the sentence in the Harris article suggest it was the journalists who added the "tried and trusted" descriptor, the protestor merely saying his samba playing counts as an example. Its unlikely Harris would include "tried and trusted" if he didnt agree it was accurate, even in the improbable event that the protestor used the phrase. Still as you say there is a chance it was the protestors view, so I've changed it to take the emphasis off Harris. Maybe you can revert me if you agree with the above. I've also mentioned the lack of success, which is mentioned in the sources for both the 01 & 05 G8s.
That said , Im not motivated to spend much more energy trying to rescue this article if you remain determined to delete. This kind of tactic achieves nothing, unless the protesters are made use of by someone with real political insight. As discussed nothing was done for the developing world at the 2005 meeting that wasnt already agreed. By contrast, at the 2009 G8 in Italy, the Pope's recently released encyclical Charity and Truth played a major role in setting the agenda (see Financial Times ), and led among other things to an additional 5 billion of funding for a sustainable solution to hunger. Sincerity and Love always trump any amount of clever humour. There's no laughter in Heaven, only Joy, and what wont be settled by words is never settled by jokes, but by blood. It wont be a tragedy if we loose this article. Im taking it off my watchlist. FeydHuxtable (talk) 21:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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