Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Team Lloyd Irvin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Lloyd Irvin. J04n(talk page) 18:34, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Team Lloyd Irvin

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Page is Non-Notable. Nominated because the information on the page contains no references to any outside third party news or non-advertisement sources. What remains is non-referenced blatant advertising. Any factual information that is negative about the organization is being constantly removed from the page. Articles that do not contain references and avoid the truth should be removed. Warisart (talk) 18:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This article appears to be no less notable than any of the other articles about prominent martial arts organizations. I added some citations to help formally establish notability. The concern about commercialization of the article is probably a genuine concern considering the proliferation of Irvin's marketing but I don't think it's very commercial in its current form. It certainly could use more citations however. Buddy23Lee (talk) 01:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to clean it up and add citations too, but IP posters keep putting the advertising back in. If all of the names of non-black belts are removed and the page can get some balance..... Warisart (talk) 03:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Mdtemp (talk) 19:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Lloyd Irvin There's a lack of significant coverage about the team itself--it's mainly about the team's fighters with passing mentions of the team (which makes this WP:NOTINHERITED). The current article's sources consist of a press release and what might be a blog--nothing to show the coverage necessary for notability.Mdtemp (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Lloyd Irvin This article lacks the sourcing required to show notability. A listing of every student and every affiliated school makes this more like a promotion piece than an encyclopedia article. The main claim to notability in the article is that some notable fighters have trained there, but I agree that appears to fall under WP:NOTINHERITED. The team is already mentioned in Irvin's article so a merge or redirect seems reasonable, unless additional sourcing is provided. Papaursa (talk) 22:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I honestly believe that this instance would cover all three of the reasons not to merge under WP:MERGE. As just one example of a created issue, the Lloyd Irvin bio has been semi-protected twice recently while the organization has not. With a merge you'd be forced to unnecessarily restrict edits to the organization content that is unrelated to the bio content and all of its ongoing issues. I'm going to keep trying to find better citations, but if the vote comes down to merge or delete, I'd rather vote delete. Buddy23Lee (talk) 22:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I hardly thing the team article is too large to merge. Get rid of the unnecessary lists of all affiliated schools and students and you're left with the 2 sentence initial paragraph. Papaursa (talk) 23:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of awkwardly "clunky". At any rate, the two remain separate (though admittedly well-linked) topics which could be expanded into longer standalone articles, as well as discrete subjects warranting their own articles, even though they might be short, as per WP:MERGE. As much as Lloyd himself might like to believe otherwise, the man and his organization truly are separate entities. Buddy23Lee (talk) 05:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What about removing the unnecessary bits to see how the page looks? Warisart (talk) 02:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the unnecessary bits is what leaves you with a two sentence article. Papaursa (talk) 19:08, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 12:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LlamaAl (talk) 00:28, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There's maybe one or two sentences that's salvageable here that could be added to Lloyd Irvin. In my mind, a couple sentences don't make a merge (but YMMV). -- ShinmaWa^(talk) 08:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting the existing article wouldn't be a major loss, but I think it's preferable to redirect or merge when there's an obvious target. Papaursa (talk) 02:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. -- ShinmaWa^(talk) 19:02, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Does anyone think that the ongoing sex scandal controversy regarding this organization, if included, cited, and deemed not to violate any policies, would make the article more notable and worth saving, or perhaps that's not a path we as a wiki should tread? If you don't know what I'm talking about, any simple G search will bring you up to speed... Buddy23Lee (talk) 20:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know the event you're referring to and I don't think it makes the article more notable. I think WP:CRIME, WP:BLP1E, and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER would all support the idea that one incident doesn't make the team notable. Papaursa (talk) 02:46, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Lloyd Irvin. Team Lloyd Irvin has had a number of very prominent mixed martial artists and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioners but it's rapidly becoming more notable for the rape scandal that is rapidly developing, and most of their top team members and many top affiliated gyms are now disassociating so the team itself is getting rapidly less notable as a functioning fight team. Beansy (talk) 04:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
DELETE BuddyLee obviously has some sort of hard on for Lloyd Irvin and his level of bias has made the Lloyd Irvin and Team Lloyd Irvin page completely irrelevant. His whole team minus one main competitor left. There's not even a true team anymore.

Oh, Spitinsk8er, no need to get so upset. We're all working toward making the wiki a better place and some of us just have different ideas on how to do it. I voice my opinion and you voice yours. Ultimately we'll come to some sort of consensus. Relax my friend. :) Buddy23Lee (talk) 19:27, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.