- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The only call for retention comes from the SPA (COI?) author, with limited reliance on P&G. Owen× ☎ 14:24, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
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- Wraith Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. Coverage and sources used consists of simple mentions or obscure websites of dubious reliability, with reliable significant coverage being in the minority. Go D. Usopp (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Companies, and Ohio. Go D. Usopp (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Keep It is my belief that the main problem with the article is that it is old. There appear to be newer sources of higher notability and reliability stating not only much of the same information as in the article currently, but there is new information as well. It is likely that only some information will need to be removed, if at all. Sirkidd2003 (talk) 16:15, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Delete The Journal-News article is SIGCOV, but there isn't much else to go on. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:58, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
- It's also a local article, concurring Delete. IgelRM (talk) 21:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
KEEPI have gone through and restructured the article, removing what I view as outdated information and sources of low notability. I have also gone in and added new info to strengthen the worth of the article and added stronger sources wherever applicable. I've got a bunch of sources compiled, and I feel that, even if this updated version isn't enough yet (though I hope it is), there are enough good sources and noteworthy information to make an article on this topic work. Sirkidd2003 (talk) 12:53, 19 June 2025 (UTC)- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep voters should mention specific sources that they feel establish notability.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 09:00, 20 June 2025 (UTC)- To be very pedantic; there was one keep voter, who commented twice. IgelRM (talk) 14:47, 20 June 2025 (UTC)
- These are what I've found so far:
- https://www.journal-news.com/lifestyles/a-hamilton-business-turning-20-wants-to-un-junk-the-block-and-help-clean-the-downtown-area/YW64DJ2HTRDHBMXL34ZFH747BM/
- https://www.journal-news.com/business/local-gaming-company-racking-awards-working-help-more-play/k7aDPaX8zltjyyT9nDQfVN/
- https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/hamilton-start-video-game-readies-for-wide-release/LrrplhJLGO6DV02lgI6EnO/
- https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/local-startup-releasing-first-major-video-game/ls0axLXXqWJNP8C8AKQwiN/
- https://www.journal-news.com/news/hamilton-start-game-for-national-award/5w7bdEKW1hAlrOoLqkRpyI/
- https://www.wvxu.org/technology/2017-01-05/how-video-games-are-developed-and-the-challenges-of-a-multi-platform-world
- https://www.wvxu.org/technology/2017-02-07/the-latest-advancements-in-technology-designed-to-improve-lives-of-those-facing-physical-challenges
- TV Hamilton: https://youtu.be/kxOcswEn00s?si=4Zh7vNHVTXdxcLSH
- https://www.fox19.com/clip/13013524/wraith-games-with-jay-kidd/
- https://www.foxnews.com/tech/developers-push-to-make-gaming-more-inclusive-for-players-with-disabilities
- https://americanart.si.edu/blog/saam-arcade-2019-representation-matters
- https://www.si.edu/newsdesk/releases/smithsonian-american-art-museums-annual-video-game-festival-saam-arcade-builds
- https://wtop.com/dc/2019/08/saam-arcade-celebrates-art-of-video-games-shines-light-on-underrepresented-communities/
- https://www.theesa.com/saam-arcade-2019-breaking-barriers/
- https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/04/become_a_puzzle_master_in_collapsus_coming_to_switch_later_this_year
- https://bleedingcool.com/games/collapsus-broke-our-puzzle-brain-during-pax-east-2019/
- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/mobile-games-hotspot-marvel-debuts-rpg-phones-pokemon-go-launching-new-competitive-mode-1282640/
- https://www.thegamer.com/collapsus-tetris-candy-crush-with-a-twist/
- https://caniplaythat.com/2020/01/09/2019-accessibility-award-winners/
- There are likely others. If the changes I've made aren't enough, I'm sure a good article can be made with the sources above. Sirkidd2003 (talk) 00:05, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
- The sources specifically about the company are local stories, which generally aren't sufficient for notability. IgelRM (talk) 01:23, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
- I have not been able to find that in the submission guidelines. Could you point me to that? Sorry if it's in an obvious place.
- My issue, basically, is that the company's work seems fairly notable (featured in the Smithsonian, Game Masters, Indie MEGABOOTH, awards from AbleGamers, CanIPlayThat, etc) and clearly their work in accessibility specificcally and in developing new game mechanics (even though it shares articles with other games) is notable enough to be in Nintendo Life, The ESA, BleedingCool, Fox News, and Holywood Reporter.
- Their work is notable and, while I can only find local sources about their structure, founding, history, etc, that doesn't stop it from being accurate (lower scrutiny has been used elsewhere).
- It seems pretty clear, to me at least, that if their work is notable, by proxy, is not the company?
- It's a little disheartening if no, especially since I had plans for a series of articles specifically about game development worker cooperatives. If Wraith Games isn't "notable enough", I doubt any of the other 20 or so co-ops are either, which is a shame because there is academic value in sharing this specific, underrepresented part of the games industry. Sirkidd2003 (talk) 22:51, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
- No opinion on the article as I have not yet fully reviewed it, but: In the guidelines for companies and organisations, the section excluding solely local coverage from counting towards inclusion is WP:AUD. It's a fairly long guideline so it's easy to miss stuff, I wouldn't worry about it, it's not like we expect new editors to have memorised all the relevant guidelines word for word before they start editing.
- On the other hand, an effective argument for retention will likely need to make reference to each of the 4 criteria in WP:SIRS, coverage that is direct and in-depth (WP:ORGDEPTH), functionally and intellectually independent (WP:ORGIND), reliable (WP:RS) and containing secondary analysis or synthesis (WP:SECONDARY). This applies to both companies, as well as their products and services.
- If there are three or more (non-local) sources that solidly meet those criteria, select the best three and explain how those criteria are met, and we should be good. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to ensure the article is based upon those sources.
- It's unfortunately confusing that we call those criteria "Notability" when the usual non-Wikipedia meaning of the word is something different (some degree of noteworthiness, which gets called WP:SIGNIFICANCE) but there's a lot of inertia in the name so nobody's managed to get agreement for changing it (yet, anyway). Alpha3031 (t • c) 10:48, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
- The sources specifically about the company are local stories, which generally aren't sufficient for notability. IgelRM (talk) 01:23, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.