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May 31

"Good" ship

Where does the habit/style/preference of calling a ship "good" come from? Lightfoot uses the construction a few different ways in The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and of course there's the plane of On the Good Ship Lollipop. More infamously, there's the much earlier Good Ship Venus. How did the "good" appellation become standard? Matt Deres (talk) 14:44, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've only found an even earlier song: I sailed in the good ship the Kitty (c1777-1778), by Charles Dibdin. There's some uncited speculation on a language board that it originally meant a "goods ship" as opposed to a warship. Alansplodge (talk) 17:01, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aha! A bit more digging reveals that the traditional formula for a bill of lading (a certificate from a shipper that goods had been received and loaded onto a particular vessel) was from the 18th century:

"Shipped by the Grace of God in good Order, and well conditioned by... in and upon the good ship called the..."

(From THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BILL OF LADING: ITS FUTURE IN THE MARITIME INDUSTRY (p. 52))

The "good ship" element was a confirmation that the ship was in a seaworthy condition. Apparently, the need to make this declaration was removed in the UK by the Carriage of Goods by Sea Act 1924. [1]

Alansplodge (talk) 17:22, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Persuant to the above, I found this text of a bill of lading of 1636:

Shipped by the grace of God in good order and well-conditioned by Mee, Thomas Goold merchant in and vpon the good Ship called the Mayflower of London. Whereof is Master under God for this present voyage Willyam Badiley and now riding at ankor in the Riuer of Lisboa and by Gods grace bound for London to say tene Chests of sugarrs namely Muscouado & 2 whites for the account present of the worshipfull Thomas Crossing of Exon merchant being marked and numbred as in the margent and are to be deliuerd in the like good order and wel conditioned at the ofersaid Port of London (the danger of the Seas only excepted) vnto Master Richard Poerry, or in his Absense Hugh Sander or to their assignes, he or they payning fraight for the said goods, After 16/8 per chest with primage and Avarage accustomed. An witness wherof the Master or Purser of the said ship hath affirmed to three Bills of Lading all of this tenont and date, the one of which three Bills being accomplished, the other two to stand void. And so God send the good Ship to her desired Port in safety. Amen. [2]

Alansplodge (talk) 17:42, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. Whether it's directly derived from "goods ship" or not, it seems like "goods", "good order", and "good ship" share a long history. Before posting, I wondered if perhaps it came from the ratings ships were given for insurance purposes. Example. If given the choice, people would want their goods carried on a "good" ship. Matt Deres (talk) 19:08, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OED has it "In extended use of a ship, town, river, etc. (chiefly with reference to things personified or conventionally treated as feminine" under good: "Of a person: distinguished by admirable or commendable qualities; worthy, estimable, fine" in a 1400 MS of the Cursor Mundi, "Euer-mare þai lokid doun. quen þat gode ship sulde droun", and 1589 in Hakluytt "Being imbarked in the good shippe, called the Gallion of London". DuncanHill (talk) 18:59, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So having a good ship is like finding a good woman? Or man, for that matter, though I hear those are hard to find. Matt Deres (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Or good hearts. DuncanHill (talk) 19:54, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason specifically for doctors, the good doctor, but rarely the good nurse.^[3]  ​‑‑Lambiam 05:53, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reminded of goodwife and goodman, and good-king-henry. It's a medieval honorific, seems calling everything respected "good" was once a common habit.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:25, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And Good Queen Bess. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:37, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good King Wenceslas, in versions old enough not to reverse the wording, says, "Mark my footsteps, good my page...". ("...my good page..." would imply the existence, or at least the possibility, of a bad page, which is nowhere suggested in the story.) 213.143.143.69 (talk) 13:03, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"My good lady wife" is a cousin of "goodwife". It's confined to a particular register. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:22, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]