Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Olympics

WP:DELSORT/OlympicsWP:DELSORT/Olympics

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Olympics. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Olympics

Andrej Glucks

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Redirect to Croatia at the 2000 Summer Olympics#Athletics, because I could not find any in-depth coverage on this athlete to meet WP:GNG. He does not even have a corresponding article on Croatian Wikipedia, and even if there was, notability likewise still might be problems there. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:49, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Croatia. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:49, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hatem Bouabid

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Declined prod. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. He did not finish sole Olympic event. LibStar (talk) 02:18, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Tunisia. LibStar (talk) 02:18, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Tunisia at the 1984 Summer Olympics#Weightlifting – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 00:20, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Tunisia at the 1984 Summer Olympics#Weightlifting – As per viable WP:ATD. Fade258 (talk) 02:26, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – His olympic career may not be notable, but his coaching career seems to be. Lots of smaller mentions in online sources lead me to believe he may get more in print media, especially considering his two year suspension due to involvement in a doping scandal. – Ike Lek (talk) 04:42, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maxime Lanet

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV from reliable, independent sources. The only references currently are databases which provide zero credence to notability, and I was unable to find anything better elsewhere. It appears that the subject may have written a book at some point, as evidenced by [[1]], but I'm not seeing a WP:NAUTHOR pass here either. A redirect to France at the 1928 Summer Olympics may be a suitable WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 01:26, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Sportspeople, Olympics, and France. Let'srun (talk) 01:26, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Lanet seems to have worked as a journalist after the Olympics [2], [3]. Oaktree b (talk) 02:50, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Some field hockey coverage here [4] with a brief obituary "necrologie" near the middle of the page, under the "bloc-notes" section [5]. Oaktree b (talk) 02:51, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not only was has a journalist, he appears to have wrote at least one book. [6] Ike Lek (talk) 04:55, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I shared in my nomination statement. However, I couldn't find any evidence of a WP:NAUTHOR pass. Let'srun (talk) 12:57, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: After a search at the BNF (above), there isn't enough coverage found to show notability. Oaktree b (talk) 02:57, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to France at the 1928 Summer Olympics#Hockey, where his name was mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:46, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per above. Not much. PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:59, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to France at the 1928 Summer Olympics#Hockey – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 00:22, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Abbas Hariri

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Subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. The only reference now is a database and all I could find were a few sentences of coverage at [[7]], which claims that the subject died in Vancouver, but I couldn't find anything else to support notability. Let'srun (talk) 01:19, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Wrestling, and Iran. Let'srun (talk) 01:19, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Wrestling, where his name was mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:47, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Wrestling – Per Clara. Svartner (talk) 00:23, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Wrestling – As per above and WP:ATD. Fade258 (talk) 02:19, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Likely to have SIGCOV in the books by Mahdi Abbasi. Plus: [8], although it is mostly interview. He was also a national champion, in the national sport of his country. I would be surprised if that gained no newspaper coverage. – Ike Lek (talk) 05:26, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Wrestling – The only sources I found are a few Persian articles, most of which only mention the name, see [9] and over here [10] without giving significant coverage. In terms of notability, it might be covered in local papers, but those aren’t available on the web, so notability can’t be confirmed. - Jesus isGreat7 ☾⋆ | Ping Me 15:41, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Eskandar Shora

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Subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV with which to meet the WP:GNG. A redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing may be a suitable WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Iran. Let'srun (talk) 18:50, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 20:49, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing, where his name was mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:47, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing – As per WP:ATD. Please ping me when references containing significant coverage are found. Fade258 (talk) 14:07, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Old Iranian media can be hard to find, especially for those such as myself who cannot read any Persian, and do not live remotely near Iran. That being said, he seems to have received coverage from July 12, 1950 in Ettela'at Haftegy. I am working on attempting to obtain a copy, but I do not know if I will be successful, or how long it will take. If anyone has any tips, I would welcome them. – Ike Lek (talk) 22:27, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Issue number appears to be 467 and in-depth coverage looks promising if he is indeed the man in the picture on the cover. Ike Lek (talk) 03:37, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing -seems sensible as an ATD meantime while Ike Lek is sourcing a possible lead source.Lorraine Crane (talk) 23:15, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – While I am still working to verify if this information is correct, I have found a source that seems to be claiming that he was Iran's first national champion in his weight-class, and thought it was worth mentioning. [11] – Ike Lek (talk) 01:37, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hubert Meta

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Declined prod. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. Eliminated in first bout. The 1 google news hit isn't about this person. LibStar (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Oceania. LibStar (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Boxing Nil🥝 00:38, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Boxing – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 03:00, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Boxing as this article is unnecessary. ~Rafael (He, him) • TALK • GUESTBOOK • PROJECTS 02:13, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – This is what I have found so far: [12][13][14][15]. He has a Facebook if someone is willing to do some looking around, but I can't get Facebook to let me make an account. – Ike Lek (talk) 02:19, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Facebook isn't a reliable source. Let'srun (talk) 19:59, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know. Of course it isn't. My hope is that it would give more clues as to where to look for coverage, especially since he has gone by many variations of his name. Ike Lek (talk) 20:03, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Paulo Noronha

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Declined prod with the addition he competed in African Zone VI Athletics Championships. These are a low tier competition and does not meet WP:NATH. Lacking coverage to meet WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:31, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Africa. LibStar (talk) 23:31, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – The subject does not have enough news coverage and does not meet other criteria as the nominator stated.Mysecretgarden (talk) 08:05, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Mozambique at the 1988 Summer Olympics#Atletics where the subject is listed and as an appropriate ATD for participants at an Olympic games. --Enos733 (talk) 16:15, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The subject clearly doesn't crest the special standards of WP:NATHLETE and I can find no evidence she meets GNG, either. Would not be opposed, necessarily, to redirect as per Enos733. Chetsford (talk) 17:37, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I noticed the subject didn't just compete in the African Southern Region Championships but was a three-time gold medalist. This meets WP:NATH prong 2, "Finished top 3 in any other major senior-level international competition (this includes prestigious small field meets, e.g., Diamond League / IAAF Golden League meets, less-prestigious large-scale meets, e.g., Asian Games, and any Platinum or Gold World Athletics Label Road Races that are not explicitly mentioned above)". It's important to note that so people reviewing past AfDs can know which meet NATH (and would be worth the effort in source search) and which don't. --Habst (talk) 00:04, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreeing with LibStar's nomination, I am skeptical that the African Zone VI Athletics Championships or its successor African Southern Region Athletics Championships satisfies NATH 2. The Confederation of African Athletics organizes four regional championships for the continent, while the Asian Games cover all of Asia. According to an IAAF article, the 2005 competition "was designed as a warm up for the World Athletics Championships".^[16] Flatscan (talk) 04:31, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Habst, why are you making egregious claims again? The African Southern Region Championships are far below the threshold. Geschichte (talk) 06:11, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, how is it an egregious claim and what other egregious claim have I ever made in the past? Generally, championships on Athletics Podium or the now-defunct gbrathletics.com are sufficient to fulfill NATH prong 2; the Southern Region champs was curated by both of those lists. None of the other African "zone" championships are listed; this isn't equivalent in prestige to any of those. Africa is traditionally a stronger continent globally in athletics than Asia so it makes sense that its regional championship would be on-par with the Asian championships. --Habst (talk) 14:03, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You have made several outlandish attempts to include lower-class champs into the "major senior-level international competitions" label. One time it was the population of the region, now it's the level of athletics on anonther continent. The desperate grasping at straws comes across as a steadfast and continuous WP:IDONTHEARYOU tendencies, which you time and time again refuse to acknowledge. Your reasoning for why these particular particular zone championships are major, rests on a novel concept you made up ad hoc, containing several fallacies - first, in Africa there is a significant gap between track and field events, have you seen the results which have given triple jump gold at the African southern champs? Since you misinterpret NATH so often - I have another word in caps that starts with N, which is that inclusion at the "Athletics Podium or the now-defunct gbrathletics.com" have NEVER granted notability in any way. Geschichte (talk) 16:24, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry that you've interpreted my comments that way; I have only ever tried to find consensus in a way that's respectful both of other editors and Wikipedia P&G, and I appreciate your contributions. Why were any of my comments about international championships, even the ones you cited, "outlandish"? I agree there is a significant gap in Africa between track and field events. I have also never claimed that meeting NATH "grants notability"; that's not how WP:NSPORT (or most subject-specific notability guidelines) work. To be clear, what is even the substance of the disagreement here -- that you don't think NATH is met? Okay, but either way it's worth mentioning that the subject was an international gold medalist here so that future editors can use it as an aid to find coverage should it exist? --Habst (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, do not redirect. A reader is best served by search results containing both Noronha's Olympics participation and his three consecutive regional championship wins. Searching for Paulo Noronha returns Mozambique at the 1988 Summer Olympics (11) and African Zone VI Athletics Championships (19) in the first 20 results. "Paulo Noronha" returns them in the first three. Redirecting to one would hide the other. The competitions are unrelated and should not be mentioned in the other article. Flatscan (talk) 04:32, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is an argument for redirection because the first nine results in your first search link are unrelated to the athlete. The benefit of redirection is to preserve page history, a link to Wikidata, categories, and structured Special:WhatLinksHere information. Redirecting to one wouldn't hide the others because readers could use Special:WhatLinksHere/Paulo Noronha, which would be impossible if the article was deleted and the redlinks were removed. --Habst (talk) 14:08, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Quite frankly, traditional readers aren't using Special:WhatLinksHere, and are far more likely to use the basic search function. Let'srun (talk) 19:50, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but that's still an argument for redirection because the search function doesn't disambiguate or provide autocomplete suggestions while redirects would accomplish both of those even using the default search. In this case, disambiguation isn't needed (yet) but the autocomplete is still crucial. --Habst (talk) 00:30, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Like others, I was unable to find the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG here. Considering the subject played in multiple competitions, I oppose a redirect. Let'srun (talk) 14:26, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would assume that nearly all Olympians have participated in some other athletic competition. Two additional comments, I presume for many athletes, competition at the Olympics is the pinnacle of their athletic career. Second, there is no prohibition against adding verifiable biographical information in a Country at an Olympics page. So, in this case, there could be information added about his championship performance at the Africa Zone VI Athletics Championships to the Mozambique at the 1988 Summer Olympics page. - Enos733 (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are WP:UNDUE concerns with that, as was expressed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics# Standardizing "Country at the YYYY Summer Olympics" articles, where adding biographical information to the country at the Olympics articles was rejected. Let'srun (talk) 19:44, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun Correct me if I'm wrong, but from skimming the discussion, it seems like it was only rejected as a bulk process? I don't see consensus to prohibit it on a case-by-case basis, but I could be missing something. Ike Lek (talk) 21:21, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to either appropriate target as ATD. – Ike Lek (talk) 16:35, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Laura Sallés

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Unable to find notable sources that comply for WP:Notability. Sources like ESPN and Olympics.com are also stubs. Im looking to redirect it to some other article. 8bit12man (talk) 00:53, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Martial arts, and Andorra. Shellwood (talk) 01:11, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Andorra at the 2016 Summer Olympics#Judo – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 02:30, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Let'srun (talk) 18:22, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – A flag bearer at such a recent olympics is bound to have coverage. This gives a little [17][18][19][20], but probably isn't quite enough. There are also interviews [21][22]. Still, it is very unlikely to me that she would not have SIGCOV somewhere. These look really promising, but I do not have paywall access. [23][24][25] This certainly contributes [26]. – Ike Lek (talk) 06:06, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yevgeny Kislyakov

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Non notable article couldnt find any sources. Redirect to Russia or some other country at 1992 Summer Olympics. 8bit12man (talk) 02:43, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. 8bit12man (talk) 02:43, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Russia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:27, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. jolielover♥talk 05:28, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Unified Team at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Rowing, where his name is mentioned. I noticed Russia was known as "Unified Team" at that time along with other countries of Former Soviet Union. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:54, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Unified Team at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Rowing – Per Clara. Svartner (talk) 21:54, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Saoud Obaid Daifallah

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Declined prod. Added source is tiny mention and does not meet WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:13, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Kuwait. LibStar (talk) 23:13, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Kuwait at the 1968 Summer Olympics – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Kuwait at the 1968 Summer Olympics: Merely participating in the Olympics is no longer enough, we need to see WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 18:42, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I guarantee you that the very first Olympian in the history of Kuwait, which has decent media that gives in-depth coverage to their Olympians when active, has SIGCOV in Kuwait. Of course, we'll need someone to actually look for sources, which it seems no one tries to do... BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:55, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Like the article creator did? Let'srun (talk) 18:25, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not really relevant to the subject's notability. Ike Lek (talk) 19:21, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Poorly sourced WP:BLP. In ordinary times, not a big problem, but nowadays, this is so. The burden of proof for a BLP is in the proponents. Find three good sources, add them, then ping me. Bearian (talk) 02:01, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- In ordinary times, not a big problem – what's not "ordinary" about this time? BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:42, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Michaela Burešová-Loukotová

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Does not pass WP:GNG. Her biggest achievement is 6th place at 1992 Summer Olympics in Women's quadruple sculls. She does not even have a page on cswiki. FromCzech (talk) 04:43, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Olympics, and Czech Republic. FromCzech (talk) 04:43, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Rowing at the 1992 Summer Olympics – Women's quadruple sculls, where her name is mentioned. Even if there was corresponding article on Czech Wikipedia, notability still might be concerns there too. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:41, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I have two promising leads for in-depth newspaper coverage, but nothing solid yet. Reversing the order of her hyphenated name is getting more success. – Ike Lek (talk) 17:46, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Patrice Delévaque

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV from reliable sources. The only reference currently is a database, and all I could find elsewhere was a mention at [[27]]. Let'srun (talk) 00:00, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and France. Let'srun (talk) 00:00, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to France at the 1928 Summer Olympics per WP:ATD.4meter4 (talk) 02:10, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to France at the 1928 Summer Olympics#Hockey – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 02:25, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Bergonzi

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 23:54, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Olympics. Let'srun (talk) 23:54, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting as an appropriate ATD for a participant at an Olympic games. --Enos733 (talk) 01:30, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 02:26, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting – can't find any substantial coverage online. Ironically, the violin maker of the same name may be a notable enough subject. – Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting – As per WP:ATD. Fade258 (talk) 02:38, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting as this article is completely unnecessary and unreliable. ~Rafael (He, him) • TALK • GUESTBOOK • PROJECTS 02:18, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting Go4thProsper (talk) 23:34, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Monaco at the 1952 Summer Olympics#Shooting as mentioned extensively already. Iljhgtn (talk) 02:14, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Jaroslav Pekař

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Contested redirect, without improvement. Zero in-depth sourcing, and searches did not turn up any, Fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 15:28, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Czech Republic. Shellwood (talk) 15:33, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Redirect to Shooting at the 1980 Summer Olympics – Mixed 50 metre rifle three positions. Fails WP:GNG, no sources founded. FromCzech (talk) 16:03, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Shooting at the 1980 Summer Olympics – Mixed 50 metre rifle three positions – Where he is mentioned. Svartner (talk) 16:21, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Shooting at the 1980 Summer Olympics – Mixed 50 metre rifle three positions, where his name is mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:35, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – He receives significant coverage in "Zlatá kniha sportovní střelby" (ISBN 80-7181-908-5) and plenty of newspaper articles. – Ike Lek (talk) 02:15, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What does "Zlatá kniha sportovní střelby" say? Geschichte (talk) 06:27, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am waiting to receive a physical copy of the book through an interlibrary loan, but given he is mentioned on 11 different pages in body text (not just event listings), it is pretty clear to me that it is SIGCOV. I will give more details when I have more info than preview snippets to give. The coverage seems to be very much about his roles in the shooting federation he became president of, but I do not want to misrepresent it by making claims without full text access. Ike Lek (talk) 07:27, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hossein Tousi

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV. A redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing may be a suitable WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Iran. Let'srun (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 03:16, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing, where his name is mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:53, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Boxing.4meter4 (talk) 15:49, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ahmed Khalaf Ali

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV from reliable sources. The only reference in the article now is a database, and I was unable to find anything better elsewhere. Let'srun (talk) 01:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Egypt. Let'srun (talk) 01:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Were you able to identify and check sources in the subject's native country and language? Because that seems like it would be pretty important, especially seeing as it's for non-Latin alphabet information. GauchoDude (talk) 14:32, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of gymnasts at the 1948 Summer Olympics per WP:ATD. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC.4meter4 (talk) 16:05, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@GauchoDude: Good question. I searched the native name on the MENA database and the Internet Archive. Let'srun (talk) 19:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for clarifying! GauchoDude (talk) 23:53, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of gymnasts at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Male artistic gymnasts – As WP:ATD suggested above. Svartner (talk) 02:32, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling. (non-admin closure) Left guide (talk) 22:48, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Michael McBeath

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Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 22:40, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cycling, Olympics, and Zimbabwe. Let'srun (talk) 23:23, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling as an appropriate ATD for a participant at an Olympic games. --Enos733 (talk) 23:33, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 02:28, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling, where his name is mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:50, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I have a lead, and have made contact with someone connected to the subject. Could I get a relist to be given more time to look into it? – Ike Lek (talk) 19:15, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling.4meter4 (talk) 14:07, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Zimbabwe at the 1980 Summer Olympics#Cycling: Like others, I was unable to find the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG for this WP:BLP. Redirect for now with no prejudice against someone reverting the redirect if and when significant coverage can be found. Let'srun (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Tang Kam Man

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Declined prod. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. LibStar (talk) 23:12, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cycling, Olympics, and Hong Kong. LibStar (talk) 23:12, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Hong Kong at the 1976 Summer Olympics#Cycling – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 01:53, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – WP:HEYed. Svartner (talk) 00:46, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Hong Kong at the 1976 Summer Olympics#Cycling, where the person's name is listed. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:52, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
I expanded and sourced the article using articles from the South China Morning Post, Wah Kiu Yat Po, and Ta Kung Pao. There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Tang Kam Man (traditional Chinese: 鄧錦文; simplified Chinese: 邓锦文) to pass Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria.
Cunard (talk) 09:03, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Pinging BeanieFan11 (talk · contribs), who removed the proposed deletion. Cunard (talk) 09:03, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I had a feeling you'd be able to save this, Cunard :) BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:34, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Clearly notable upon expansion. Seacactus 13 (talk) 00:42, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:HEY. Passes WP:SPORTSBASIC.4meter4 (talk) 02:45, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Do changes to the article change anyone's opinion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- given these additional expansions that has improved greatly the subjects notability.Lorraine Crane (talk) 20:13, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Subject clearly never should have been nominated. Passes WP:SPORTSCRIT. – Ike Lek (talk) 20:24, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pinye Malaibi

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Declined prod with source added which appears to be a 2 line mention in a 200 page book and not SIGCOV for meeting WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:19, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Oceania. LibStar (talk) 23:19, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1988 Summer Olympics#Weightlifting – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The source is close to 100 words from what is visible, and we know it goes on to discuss him further on the following page, and on page 101. The context in which he is discussed is about other sources giving biographical coverage to him. Add that to the fact that not even one single Papuan newspaper from his era has been searched. Very likely notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: While I'd like to see more coverage here, the book cited in the article covers the subject sufficiently in depth to meet the WP:SPORTSBASIC. I disagree with the nom that it is a "2 line mention". Let'srun (talk) 15:50, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per coverage found. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:13, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1988 Summer Olympics#Weightlifting. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC which requires "multiple sources". One source is not enough to meet the criteria, and the olympicsreference website is a database so it doesn't count. If a second source is found please ping me and I will gladly change my vote. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:11, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Papua New Guinea at the 1988 Summer Olympics#Weightlifting is a great idea for an ATD. ~Rafael! (He, him) • talk • guestbook • projects 23:55, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – The claim that the added source is a two-line mention is patently false. While multiple sources need to exist, this gives me confidence that additional print sources are highly likely to exist in PNG. – Ike Lek (talk) 18:13, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Farhang Khosropanah

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Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Not helping matters is that while the International Shooting Sport Federation lists the name as Farhang Khosropanah, Olympedia has the name listed as Farhang Khosro Panah. In any event, I couldn't find any WP:SIGCOV under either name whether through Google, the Internet Archive, or the MENA database. A redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics may be a suitable WP:ATD, although the name conflict may cause issues with that. Let'srun (talk) 01:30, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Military, Olympics, and Iran. Let'srun (talk) 01:30, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To make matters even more confusing, in addition to the Persian name listed on his page, I am also seeing "سوان فرهنگ خسروپناه" if someone with more Farsi knowledge wants to look. Ike Lek (talk) 02:56, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

فرهنگ خسروپناه is his name, سوان is the literal transliteration to "swan" but is not a word in Farsi. I don't know where "سوان" is but remove it. jolielover♥talk 05:34, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't on Wikipedia. It is in articles on the Persian internet, leading me to think it might be just part of a weird name. Ike Lek (talk) 05:36, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Asked my Persian friend to verify and she said it's not a word. jolielover♥talk 06:00, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:13, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Iran at the 1948 Summer Olympics#Shooting – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 22:53, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Kuk-fan

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As it stands, this subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. The only reference is a database, and all I could find elsewhere was a mention at [[28]]. Let'srun (talk) 00:46, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Wrestling, and South Korea. Let'srun (talk) 00:46, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep – Plenty of SIGCOV. I'll try to AGF and assume you just had some trouble with the name when doing your BEFORE. Some sources do transliterate his name weirdly. Here's an abstract to a article about him [29]. This talks a bit about him as a coach [30], and a little bit more here [31]. There's probably tons more in the sources of the first article, but I can't read Korean, so Korean newspaper databases would be quite difficult for me. – Ike Lek (talk) 03:14, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I found from the korean source that he actually exist. https://gsic.sports.or.kr/com/cop/game/player_info.do?gameCode=14 Also he seems to be covered in other korean resarch material as well as one of the figures that were part of the first generation of wrestlers in south korea.https://www.dbpia.co.kr/journal/articleDetail?nodeId=NODE10862222 Waltzingmogumogupeach (talk) 07:40, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 00:11, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Clearly passes WP:SPORTSBASIC based on the scholarly materials given above. It's not often a wrestler is the primary subject of an academic journal article. Nice find. Other sources look like WP:SIGCOV as well.4meter4 (talk) 01:39, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dietmar Kuttelwascher

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Fails WP:Athlete LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:40, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Sportspeople. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:40, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Austria. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:17, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:GNG [32][33][34] – Ike Lek (talk) 04:30, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The first source looks good to me, while second source is from the club Kuttelwascher competed for and as such isn't independent. I cannot view the third source so I have no opinion on it. Let'srun (talk) 15:43, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The sources provided by Ike Lek are sufficient to keep the article for an Olympic athlete. I would believe there are additional sources in Austrian news archives. --Enos733 (talk) 16:06, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per Ike Lek sources. Svartner (talk) 04:46, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC. The first source provided by Ike Lek is independent. The other two are not. Both are published by the club Ruderverein Ister [de] where the subject was a rower.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 00:18, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: As the analysis from 4meter4 shows, this subject lacks the needed independent WP:SIGCOV with which to meet the WP:GNG. In addition, the only reference currently in the article is a database. Let'srun (talk) 22:22, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Austria at the 1992 Summer Olympics#Rowing per WP:ATD - I don't see any reason to delete. Ingratis (talk) 09:17, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hassen Chaktami

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Declined prod. Eliminated in first bout of Olympics. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 00:41, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Tunisia. LibStar (talk) 00:41, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – These to me are enough to indicate that there is likely enough WP:SIGCOV to meet WP:GNG. [35][36][37][38] – Ike Lek (talk) 02:45, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per Ike Lek. Svartner (talk) 04:29, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Source analysis would be helpful here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fade258 (talk) 00:50, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 00:58, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List of Olympic competitors (Aa–Ak)

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This one, and all following pages listed in Template:List of Olympic competitors intro, should be draftified again, following the many complaints at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Creating a list of Olympic competitors. These script or bot created pages are not ready for the mainspace and need thorough reworking to become acceptable. They were draftified but moved back to the mainspace under false pretenses. Arguments why these lists shouldn't exist as is can be found in the linked discussion, which makes it clear that at the moment there is no consensus for their format, contents, ...

Working on them in draft and then move a corrected, consensus-based version to the mainspace (if such a version can be found) would be the right way forward. Fram (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Olympics. Fram (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: As the nom notes, many issues have been raised with these lists, ~~among them that they list appearances of Youth Olympics in combination with the regular Olympic games~~, and are poor navigational aids. Let'srun (talk) 14:41, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify to resolve (if possible) the data dump problems. Geschichte (talk) 14:50, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify/delete When there are tens of thousands of items in a topic, we should not have them in a single list. Breaking something up alphabetically into 64 pages that are each themselves among the largest pages on Wikipedia does not actually assist anyone in providing information or a means of navigation. Reywas92^Talk 15:47, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- 65 list articles on Olympians is too much but 827 lists on asteroids is okay? (Ex: List of minor planets: 173001–174000) And this Olympian list isn't among the longest articles on Wikipedia, it's not even in the top 1,000. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:56, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  There are 15 of these 65 lists in the top 1000 though. Fram (talk) 16:02, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  WP:OSE. Let'srun (talk) 16:34, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  
  Where did I say that was okay? An alphabetical list of names isn't quite the same as a list of celestial objects but I'm not a big fan of that either. I did already suggest in the linked discussion that breaking the list down by sport rather than letter of last name is somewhat more navigable. — Reywas92^Talk 17:59, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What's some of the "reworking" needed to "become acceptable"? I feel like if these are draftified we'll just have a certain set of editors endlessly arguing on why they don't like the list, thus making a "consensus-based version" impossible. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:37, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As opposed to when these lists were mass-created with little input from the community at the time of their creation? Let'srun (talk) 14:48, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I asked for community feedback on 12 July a full week before creation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Creating a list of Olympic competitors because other editors had indicated that a list was needed, pinging all interested users including both you and BeanieFan11 at that time soliciting feedback and responding to all points. I'm just not sure what else I could have done in that regard. It's a large list, but it was created over a period of weeks with community feedback heavily taken into consideration. --Habst (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. These exhaustive lists are extremely long, in violation of list inclusion criteria that state exhaustive lists "more than a few hundred or thousand entries" should only include notable entries.
Copying a summary of my arguments from the discussion:
The table also doesn't even link to the specific events the subject competed in, which makes it useless for navigation for non-notable entries even though the whole reason the list was created was to serve as a redirect target for non-notable Olympians who competed in multiple years/events. Instead of a gigantic alphabetic list that takes 30 s to load fully and has no further information on the subject beyond sport and years of first/last appearance, readers searching for non-notable multi-Olympians should just be redirected to the page where their participation is first discussed and a hat link provided to their other appearances, as has been done at AfD lately.
To be honest, I don't see a version of these lists ever gaining consensus, at least not with the current scope and format. Either scrap it altogether, or change it to be a list of lists encompassing the "list of [country] Olympians" that exists for some countries already, which can be further spun out into "list of [country] Olympians in [sport]" as needed. JoelleJay (talk) 17:45, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's a false statement. None of the lists take anywhere near 30 seconds to load. When tested at 50 Mbps, the pages took less than 1second to load. The lists range between 300 and 450 kilobytes, and it would be surprising if they took longer. Miria~01 (talk) 19:57, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I generally agree with this, although it should be noted that the original lists (where the competitors were divided into the 27 letters, no matter how many there were) were so bloated that loading times were a issue. However, Habst later did split them up into what exists right now. There are other reasons to oppose the lists, and I personally do oppose them as they stand, but this isn't the main problem right now for me. Let'srun (talk) 20:40, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Olympic_competitors_(A)&oldid=1300180162
Even with individual letters, the render time never reaches the alleged 30 seconds. In fact, it takes longer to render it complete on mobile in desktop mode, but it's only 5-7 seconds at most (depending on the mobile browser). Even if that's not the main problem, such exaggerations with incorrect statements should simply be avoided in general. Miria~01 (talk) 22:16, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, the "that" in "that's a false statement" is only referring to the couple words in an exaggeration I made within a quoted passage...? JoelleJay (talk) 23:34, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and as I've now noticed, you posted this a few days ago on August 12th, where it was already criticized in a reply.I simply find it strange to repeat something incorrect, even as a quote, without a strikethrough Even if it was meant to be a rhetorical device, the exaggeration here is strange. You denounce the supposedly long loading times in the discussion without actually stating exactly how long they really are (in reality, less than 1 second). Miria~01 (talk) 00:22, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep On WikiProject Olympics the creation of such lists was actually supported by most Users, even if the perspectives of the creation differ (whether by alphabetical, sport, or country). But it cannot be denied that some users, who generally favor deletion, ultimately only want to remove it, because they don't like it and make no suggestions for improvement other than deleting it.
These lists are easily sortable by nation, sport, and even the year of the athlete's first and last participation The data in such lists can be easily scraped using simple scripts for further research. From this lists of Olympian athletes, one can also determine which athletes competed for multiple nations[39], for which there are no lists on Wikipedia.
Overall, I see no reason to delete the information content of this simple list, without modules and images, so loading shouldn't be a problem with the average or median internet speeds worldwide.[40]][41] Actually, I don't see the large number of athletes per page list as a problem in general, since simple searches are possible, using CTR+F (Control Find) on PC or "find on page" option on mobile browsers. Miria~01 (talk) 21:41, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- No, they are not easily sortable, because there's not much point of sorting by nation or sport if you only get the segment of atheletes whose name begins with certain starting letters. With tens of thousands of names on dozens of pages, it's not actually easy to see who competed for multiple nations, but perhaps that ought to be a new list. If you're one of the very small number of people who uses scripts to scrape data, I supposed you could just as easily scrape it from Olympics.com the same way these pages were made in the first place. It's not that people don't like it, it's that it serves no actual useful or informative purpose. — Reywas92^Talk 23:22, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Yes, exactly; sorting is absolutely useless for these lists. Multi-Olympic athletes would be a better list if executed properly. JoelleJay (talk) 23:38, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  
  The argument about segmentation is, of course, a point of criticism, and I don't reject it. The point about data scraping is, of course, not significant, but it should be mentioned that it is much easier to extract data (with simple scripts) from Wikipedia with its very simple HTML tables. It would even be a colossal task to extract all the athletes from https://www.olympics.com/en/athletes/, since it is in a database and you don't have access to it. In addition, the database on the website is incomplete, which the Olympic Studies Centre confirmed after an email inquiry, but they are striving to complete it, as they said. For my inquiry I asked, why Józef Klukowski (two medals in art competitions) is not included, although other Olympic art competition participants are listed on the website's database. The simple reason was, that the data is not entered in the database. This also affects many other Olympic participants in many different sports. Miria~01 (talk) 01:10, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 23:36, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for bringing this up so we can reach consensus. I read all the comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Creating a list of Olympic competitors and created a new format for the lists that I believe addresses every one of the outstanding issues:
1. Youth Olympics start / end dates are no longer listed Y (see "Thanks, but please remove: youth Olympics")
2. Only teams represented are listed, not nationality, fixing cases like Josef Jabor and Dagmar Bílková Y (see e.g. "Josef Jabor Czech Republic, Czechoslovakia")
3. Any non-athlete roles are removed Y (see "participation in another capacity than an athlete (e.g. ciach, referee) as these are also normally not counted as Olympic participations")
4. Created a new "Games" column that links to relevant "nation at" pages for each row Y (see "they don't even link to the "[nation] at [year] [Olympics]" pages where the actual information on them is")

I also wanted to clarify that these pages were not created with a bot. It was actually a painstakingly manual effort for the most part, linking each name to a Wikidata item (that's why there are no links to disambiguation pages) that required thousands of manual clicks / fixes on my part over several weeks to finish. I wrote scripts to help with some parts but they never ran unattended; all output was manually checked. There are structural reasons why a complete list is needed recently given the implementation of WP:NSPORTS2022, but I think the list now serves a useful navigational purpose as well with the links to "nation at" pages so I would be in favor of keeping it.

Given that all the content-based issues are addressed, I'll ping all those who commented on the older version of the lists: Pinging previous commenters (Let'srun—Geschichte—Reywas92—WikiOriginal-9—Fram—BeanieFan11—JoelleJay—Miria~01). Thanks, --Habst (talk) 03:29, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I striked part of my !vote, although I'm unsure if WP:LISTCRITERIA and WP:NOTDIRECTORY is being met here. Still leaning towards draftifying while a larger conversation is held, but I appreciate at least some of the issues raised being fixed. Let'srun (talk) 17:38, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This list is more useful now with the specific Country at the Year Olympics links. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 07:43, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing these lists being useful for the average reader due to their size, but even giving the benefit of the doubt on that, do they even meet the WP:LISTCRITERIA, which specifies that wikipedia "should not contain indiscriminate lists"? Let'srun (talk) 01:08, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Am I missing something here? The list is discriminating because it only selects Olympic competitors. An indiscriminate list would be one without clearly-defined criteria. --Habst (talk) 11:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To address the sorting issue, I created a Wikipedia user script to allow you to merge all the lists into one giant list that is sortable (see picture). It adds a button on every one of the "List of Olympic competitors" lists that will complete the list by downloading and merging all the other pages. Of course, it is slow and resource-intensive though I am able to load it (slowly) on an i7-3520M with 8GB RAM from 2012. With a faster computer, it would probably load much quicker.

To use it, add this line to your Special:MyPage/common.js:

importScript('User:Habst/mergeOlympians.js'); // Backlink: [[User:Habst/mergeOlympians.js]]

I get that this isn't commonly done and it's not expected for all readers to use user scripts, but it is an option for those who want to sort the complete list. --Habst (talk) 17:13, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Above, there was some discussion about the length of these pages. Please note that after the recent changes, 4 of these pages are now in the top 10 of longest articles on enwiki, and 15 of the lists are in the top 50 of longest articles.[42] Fram (talk) 08:30, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Fram, thanks for pointing this out, I split the largest pages so now there are none in the top 10 LongPages. It's also trivial to continue splitting after the AfD until we reach an agreed max length. Is the length per page your only remaining issue with the list? --Habst (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Er, no, it's just another good indication why you should have let the draftification stand until this all got resolved (assuming it can be). Now we get splits, splits of splits, creating more and more articles divided at completely random points (most of these lists are still among the largest pages ever created here). No one says "cycling track", "cycling road", ... for the sport, no idea why yu created dreadful redirects like Cycling road at the Olympics to enable this. You still have the Wikidata links for no good reason (if a link is needed for the redlinks, then link to the Olympics website, which is a reliable site, not to a user-generated database of dubious value). And the issues raised by the many others here have merit as well, I'ld like to see you address these (and not with a common.js script). I still don't see why having these lists is better than not having them. Fram (talk) 13:53, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Objection: The IOC line should certainly be adopted when specifying the sport (discipline). Cycling should be treated the same as other Olympic sports like aquatics, equestrian, volleyball or gymnastics. (see also https://www.olympics.com/en/sports/). Miria~01 (talk) 14:23, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then "Equestrian jumping" shouldn't be used, just "equestrian". And "hockey" instead of "field hockey". Oh, and "baseball softball" instead of "softball". And "baseball 5" instead of "baseball". I wouldn't support these, but at least it would be consistent. Fram (talk) 14:46, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why should be "baseball 5" instead of baseball? It is a discipline debuted only at the Youth Olympics. Nevertheless, we should actually mention the sport discipline in such lists, as is usual in most Olympic articles in wiki. We don't usually write "aquatics" for swimming, water polo or diving.The NOC profiles for Paris 2024 were also always differentiated according to the sports discipline by the IOC, e.g. United States. Miria~01 (talk) 15:19, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Forget baseball 5 then, the others are valid. When I look at our Olympics coverage, I see articles like Cycling at the 1956 Summer Olympics which discuss track cycling and road cycling, never "cycling track" and "cycling road", no matter what the IOC uses. Similarly, we have Field hockey at the 2024 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament, not simply "hockey". Basically, we use whatever the Wikipedia standard is, without following the sometimes very strange IOC standards ("hockey" isn't a very strange one, but not one we follow either). Fram (talk) 16:48, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the suggestion. Outside of North America, the sport is simply known as "hockey"; I don't think field hockey at the Summer Olympics is actually using the WP:COMMONNAME to be honest. That being said, because I want to achieve consensus the list has always said "field hockey" instead of just "hockey" in all places to be maximally WP:PRECISE. Equestrian jumping, vaulting, eventing, driving, and dressage are all considered different sports (not merely different disciplines of the same sport like e.g. the 100 metres versus 200 metres) so they should be listed separately for sorting. Are there any other sport names you would want to change? --Habst (talk) 18:05, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Olympic Sport and Discipline Technology Codes [43]
OFFICIAL PROGRAMME OF THE OLYMPIC GAMES PARIS 2024 [44]

1) There are various sports, some of which have multiple disciplines, and every discipline can have multiple events. And contrary to @Habst's statement, athletics consists of a single discipline, but which has many events.
2) "Hockey" is the official name by the International Hockey Federation (FIH) and is also simply called in most parts of the world, especially where ice hockey doesn't play a role. Nevertheless, using the name "field hockey" instead of just "hockey" is a good way to avoid confusion and differentiate the sport from ice hockey, as it also done by many secondary sources. However, we must be careful not to force our personal preferences to the point, where we decide something completely against sources. WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT should never be an argument why we shouldn't do things.

PS:@Fram If there is a misunderstanding on my part and you are only concerned in the name itself (e.g. "cycling track" instead of "track cycling"), please note that I am happy with both names. What matters to me is a consistent list according to one category (here "sport discipline") and not an arbitrarily broken down list according to personal preference. So, I understood (possibly a misunderstanding) that only '"cycling" should be broken down without disciplines, unlike other sports. Miria~01 (talk) 20:19, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That´s indeed the misunderstanding, so we´re all good now :-) Fram (talk) 20:56, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Fram, thank you for your feedback and I hope we can reach an agreement before the AfD ends. "Cycling track" and "cycling road" are the official sport names used by the Olympics, see https://www.olympics.com/en/sports/cycling-track/ and https://www.olympics.com/en/sports/cycling-road/, so the redirects do make sense. If you don't agree, you can take those two redirects I created to RfD where I am pretty confident they will be kept. It's definitely not true that "no one says" those terms, but I did just replace them on all lists with "track cycling" and "road cycling" because I want to reach a consensus.

I don't think Wikidata is a "database of dubious value" -- it's a sister project of Wikipedia linked via {{Wikidata red link}} as discussed at Special:Diff/1305540192, unlike Olympics.com which is an external link that should generally not be included inline in articles with some exceptions.

Having read all of this AfD and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Creating a list of Olympic competitors, I think that every issue has been addressed by either me or other editors. I don't think it's fair to say "And the issues raised by the many others here" without naming anything specific.

The positive case is that having a complete list is due on a general-purpose encyclopedia as a reference for those wanting to look up Olympics-related content -- it's currently the best resource for anyone wanting to look up an Olympian without an article. Separately, given that the WP:NSPORTS2022 rollout has only begun in full force recently this year, there is a structural need to have redirect targets for each Olympian and the list provides named anchors for that purpose (the "nation at Olympics" pages are insufficient because they're often incomplete and for multi-time Olympians picking which to target can be unclear). --Habst (talk) 16:09, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Olympics.com can be used as a reference. Wikidata can't be used as a reference. Having a reference from a reliable source is better than an inline external link surely? As for your other arguments, like I said above, there seem to be potential redirect targets for every Olympian already without the need for these lists. Most can be redirected to "sports in Olympics year" pages or "nation at Olympics year" pages, the multi-time Olympians without notability are much rarer than the single-time Olympians with that issue. Creating such massive lists to deal with so few exceptions (people explicitly deleted at AfD usually) seems to me (and others) to be a bad solution. "I don't think it's fair to say "And the issues raised by the many others here" without naming anything specific." You can read the objections above, feel free to discuss them with these people. Fram (talk) 16:42, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, which is why Wikidata is not used as a reference for the lists (it was only used to make sure we are linking to the disambiguated page name for each competitor). Having inline external links (e.g. to olympics.com) is usually inappropriate per WP:EL although there are exceptions.

There are definitely not potential redirect targets for every Olympian without these lists; for example at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Henri Ndinga a suitable target wasn't found acceptable by the community (before these lists were created), and that would apply to any of the thousands of multiple-time Olympians. Many of the "(nation) at (year) Olympics" articles are also incomplete e.g. Willi Heckmann isn't linked at West Germany at the 1976 Summer Olympics so this affects single-time Olympians as well. I estimate the total number of Olympians without suitable redirect targets is in the thousands, although we're only just beginning to find out considering that NSPORTS2022 only started to be implemented en masse quite recently necessitating a list like this.

I have read every comment above and discussed them in depth at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Creating a list of Olympic competitors -- for example see this comment for the discussion about inclusion criteria. Now that we've resolved the length, Youth Olympics, sport names, team/nationality discrepancy, non-athlete roles, links to (nation) at (year) pages, and rationale, are there any other problems you have with the list? I just want to reach a consensus, which will involve compromise, which is the reason why you wanted to draftify in the first place. --Habst (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No you don´t agree, you just repeat your position about external links while ly suggestion is to add Olympedia as a reference, instead of using Wikidata as an external link inline. I highly doubt your claim about thousabds of Wikipedians without suitable redirect target, as this would only be for non notable athletes with multiple appearances basically. Anyway, I think I´ll just stop replying here and let others voice their opinions, it is becoming very tedious to have to reoeat some of these points over and over again. The compromise was draftification, which you rejected. So let´s wait and see how this AfD ends. Fram (talk) 18:00, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is some confusion about terminology; I was considering Wikidata as an internal link because it's the sister project of Wikipedia while Olympedia or Olympics.com would be external links. Nearly all linked Wikidata items have interlanguage articles which is helpful for redirects to point to, and even for those that don't it's a helpful source of information. There are cautions about linking to Wikidata within articles, but linking in lists is usually fine per Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Wikidata fallback link.

Sadly I think my estimation of a few thousand Olympians is probably an undercount based on some sampling I've been doing. It doesn't only affect non-notable athletes with multiple appearances; for example in lots of nation articles like West Germany at the 1976 Summer Olympics all of the canoeing, diving, equestrian, gymnastics, handball, judo, rowing, sailing, shooting, swimming, weightlifting, and wrestling athletes aren't mentioned on the page, so this list would be the only suitable redirect target for many of those athletes even if they only competed at one Olympics.

If I were to remove all links to Wikidata items with {{Wikidata red link}}, would you or others !vote to keep the list? The point of draftification was to come to a consensus, but I thought discussing this at AfD would be a better venue so that we could agree within a shorter timeframe and so that all of the incoming Wikidata-linked redirects with history to these pages would not be deleted. I am very eager to achieve consensus even if it means removing content from the lists. --Habst (talk) 18:21, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Ndinga AfD does not at all preclude creating a new redirect to one of the suggested targets, which can be done for all other non-notable multi-Olympians. The "fix" for sorting is not going to be used by any readers, so is not actually a fix to the problem of these lists not being useful to browse or navigate with. Just split the list by country or create a list of only the multi-Olympians. JoelleJay (talk) 03:34, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I've tried to game-theory out the possible outcomes in this case. It would definitely both preclude preserving the page history and force an arbitrary choice of which "year" page to link to – which would make the redirect highly susceptible to being RfD'ed. And it seems unlikely that a WP:REFUND admin would restore an article deleted at AfD, where a redirect was explicitly rejected, in order to convert it to a redirect. Plenty of readers use user scripts – I wrote the script above primarily to help you and Reywas92 above but I think the list is justified on its own even without the combining script. --Habst (talk) 13:31, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Without it being explicitly tested, I don't think it is fair to cast that assumption. In addition, it should be noted that WP:INDISCRIMINATE also applies, and just because some Olympians are notable doesn't mean that a list of them is compliant with WP:NLIST. Let'srun (talk) 22:45, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks -- I was responding to an assumption (that a redirect could be created even when it was rejected at an AfD), which part of either the original assumption or my response do you think is unrealistic?

Briefly speaking, I think that a list of Olympians is WP:DUE in a general-purpose encyclopedia. WP:INDISCRIMINATE's four prongs (descriptions, lyrics, statistics, software updates) all explicitly don't apply to this list, so given the due argument as well I'm not sure how we can say that applies. Notability for lists is based on the group, and certainly Olympians as a group are notable (see the mountains of SIGCOV written about them as a group). --Habst (talk) 02:37, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not referring to the four prongs, which don't cover everything that can be indiscriminate. Rather, "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources. As explained in § Encyclopedic content above, merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." Let'srun (talk) 14:42, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with contextualizing lists, which is why I added {{List of Olympic competitors intro}} to every page. Considering the English Wikipedia hosts thousands of Olympics-related articles, it makes sense to host a list of competitors as a navigational aid. The Olympians listed aren't just verifiable; they are, as a group, notable. --Habst (talk) 15:44, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is a very useful list and Habst has worked very hard in addressing all the concerns that have been brought up. I see no benefit to removing these lists. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:43, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:USEFUL and WP:HARDWORK. Let'srun (talk) 14:49, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the proposal is simply to send these over to draft space for a time so they can be worked on further, and not necessarily to remove them. Let'srun (talk) 14:50, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun, surprisingly usefulness is actually a relevant criteria in deletion discussions for lists per WP:NLIST: "Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept". Part of the issue with moving them to draftspace is a purely technical one; the redirects with page history targeted at the lists would then have to be deleted (because we can't have redirects to draftspace) and they wouldn't be restored if the list makes it back to mainspace.

But more substantially, can you name one item that can be "worked on further" in an {{edit request}}-like format (i.e., change X to Y)? Issues pointed out above were already addressed with a new list format and I'm really struggling to find even one actionable item unaddressed. --Habst (talk) 15:54, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Making the lists by sport and/or country, depending on what is determined to work best for actual readers, and providing info on what event(s) the subjects competed in, rather than just listing the sport. As it stands, any redirect to these lists actually causes the reader to lose information compared to when the subject is redirected to only one of the Olympic games they competed in (if they were in more than one). Let'srun (talk) 12:57, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the suggestion; I think that having a one-dimensional list (indexed just by name) doesn't preclude also having by-sport lists. The issue is that the scenario you propose (redirecting multi-Olympians to one arbitrary participation) is frequently rejected by other Wikipedians as at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Henri Ndinga. Now that each "country at" page is linked as well, no information is lost because readers can simply follow those links while even in the few cases where one "country at" page was targeted for a multi-Olympian, readers wouldn't have easily been able to find the other. --Habst (talk) 15:44, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 06:15, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTDATABASE. Although draftify is acceptable, at some point we have to sit up and take notice that this is not what Wikipedia is about. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- What part of NOTDATABASE supports deletion here? Is this a Summary-only descriptions of works, Lyrics database, Excessive listings of unexplained statistics or Exhaustive logs of software updates? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:41, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  It would be the first sentence. To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:48, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  So, what part of this list is not "in context"? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:52, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  What part of this is "with explanations"? What part of this is referenced to independent sources? What part of this is not an indiscriminate collection? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:01, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  This is an alphabetic list of Olympians who competed in a medal event at a modern Olympic Games. Only athletes that competed in at least one senior-level Olympic Games are included, with each athlete's Olympic participation listed along with their sports and nations represented. A pretty clear explanation of what the list is, with two independent sources. And a well-defined list of competitors is not "indiscriminate". BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:15, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  
  Being an Olympian already is the discriminate part. It's the highest level sporting competition in the world. It's certainly more discriminate than every floating rock in the universe. If this list was created decades ago and only had 50,000 people on it, would it be okay then? At some point, every list on Wikipedia will become "indiscriminate" just due to the passage of time. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  No. No, it isn't. Being an olympic medalist might be, although the utility of a page of all medalists, without context or explanation remains questionable; but a list of every single competitor ever? That is certainly an indiscriminate list. Moreover where did it come from? Not a human editor. A bot had to create these pages from an existing database. In some countries databases are protected by database right, and this creation from a single database would breach that right. Whether that is an issue here or not is one for the lawyers, but without a doubt the creation of structured data from the structured data in a database is questionable ethically. We have taken someone else's work and simply presented it as a different form of structured data. Why? Wikipedia is a tertiary source. It does not replace the secondary source, the database this was generated from. Neither are we adding context and explanations. We are just throwing out a load of structured data. It is indiscriminate, unmaintainable, unverified. In short, this page should not be here. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:12, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Thank you for the feedback. It was actually compiled by humans in the same way that every other list on Wikipedia is compiled, cross-checked with several sources, and backed up by the work that existing Wikipedians have done creating articles for nearly every Olympian, and I only wrote a script to help with the formatting; there was no bot involved, and I've reviewed all entries manually over a period of several weeks. 70 pages sounds like a lot but it's possible to get through in a few weeks.
  
  To be clear, are you alleging that this list is literally illegal to exist? If so, I think it's not fair to say something like that and then say it's for lawyers to decide; this is simply not an accurate interpretation of database rights per meta:Wikilegal/Database Rights. I've started a discussion on your user page about this narrow legal issue because I don't really think it's relevant to the AfD.
  
  There are ethical concerns involved with deletion of Olympic competitor biographies which spurred the creation of this list, but we have to go by policies and guidelines. As explained above, the list isn't indiscriminate, I think it is maintainable, and every row is verifiable with a link. --Habst (talk) 20:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  To be clear, are you alleging that this list is literally illegal to exist? That is not what I said. I said that it is unethical to reproduce someone's collation and that it may be illegal under database right or equivalent laws, but that would need an IP lawyer to consider. And no, every row is not verifiable, because Wikipedia pages can never verify Wikipedia pages. There is not a single reference anywhere in the table, and the whole thing is just a reproduction of the database at Olympics.com. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:43, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Please see Special:Diff/1307905032, where the nominator says "No, these lists are not a copyright issue or otherwise speedy deletable". On Wikipedia, we are not required to have an IP lawyer review pages in order to keep them; that would not be a workable solution and there's no legal basis for saying creating a simple list is a violation of the law. Because of that, it's not true that this AfD is "not suitable for non admin closure".
  
  There are references on every list page in addition to the links on each row, so the lists fulfill WP:V. If any item is somehow challenged, an additional reference or note can be added supporting that as WP:V permits. --Habst (talk) 15:34, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Where did you obtain the collation? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:18, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  I went through each Olympic competitor page on Wikipedia and assigned them a unique ID. I then matched that ID with Wikidata (for interlanguage links), Olympedia, and Olympics.com where applicable. There's nothing wrong with compiling lists like this; the pages are mostly already on Wikipedia in PetScan. Like I said, it was a painstakingly manual process that took weeks to complete mostly due to disambiguating. --Habst (talk) 19:12, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Yes, that would seem to obviate the immediate concern that this breaches database right. Unless the articles and wikidata were derived wholesale from a database, of course. But in that case it is not this list that wholesale copies an existing collation. This would merely be a derivative work of the copy. It remains unsourced and all the other concerns remain. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:59, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  It isn't unsourced as WP:V is met, and the idea that any simple list on Wikipedia could breach database rights does not have any legal basis. At some point, I think continuing to press this and claiming that I may have broken the law by creating the list becomes a legal threat (acknowledging that reporting valid copyright violations are not legal threats).

I respect your other contributions so for that reason I think we should focus on substantive issues in the AfD. What other concerns do you have? --Habst (talk) 23:25, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a source for Wikipedia. If you think I made a legal threat, take it to ANI. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 06:52, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, which is why I have never used Wikipedia as a source in an article. I don't think you made a legal threat; only that it could become one if you or anyone were to continue repeatedly saying someone may be breaking the law through normal Wikipedia editing. If you really think that, you could follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Copyright violations#All of article violates copyright, which I don't think would be productive because there is no legal basis to say compiling a list of Olympians violates the law. --Habst (talk) 12:34, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

- I'm also surprised by your claim about the databases. The Olympedia database hasn't been updated since January 1, 2024[45], and probably won't be in the near future. It means all athletes from the 2024 Games aren't listed and further athletes from future games won't be there either. The IOC database in olympics.com is clearly incomplete (even athletes' with medals are missing) and is a mess overall. The only list that's most comprehensive, so to speak, is this one on Wikipedia. We should actually consider ourselves lucky that such a list can be found in an encyclopedia that can't be found nowhere else except in fragments. Miria~01 (talk) 21:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in principle There is nothing wrong with this. WP:NOTDATABASE doesn't apply since this is valid reference information. The fact they're long isn't a huge problem. I want to note that I have absolutely no problem if they are draftified and re-worked, possibly alphabetical by sport, possibly by country, but there is absolutely no reason why we cannot have this information somewhere on Wikipedia, as long as it is validly referenced. Therefore, I do support draftifying/some AtD as long as there is a path to mainspace. SportingFlyer T·C 21:49, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is why I support actually draftifying them, as currently I don't see these lists as being useful navigational aids for the majority of the readers (i.e. anyone not in WikiProject Olympics). I think sorting by sport makes the most sense, but draftifying allows for a more nuanced and careful debate to happen than when these articles are in mainspace. Let'srun (talk) 12:54, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lengthy discussion about whether these lists are lawfully acceptable or should be speedy deleted as some copyright/creative compilation list. A complete non-starter which drags on and on. Closing admin is welcome to read this and disagree with me, but I doubt it. Fram (talk) 10:04, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Comments on Legality of the List

Moved from User talk:Sirfurboy

– Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:10, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved this discussion from my talk page because it is directly relevant to this AfD and will benefit from others seeing it and able to comment Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:10, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I wanted to start a separate thread to discuss the legal concerns you raised at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Olympic competitors (Aa–Ak). I don't think this is an fair interpretation of database rights; by this logic, doing a {{PetScan|cat=Olympic competitors|catdepth=10}} would be illegal because it lists the same Olympians that several databases do. Additionally, database rights aren't recognized in the U.S. where WMF is headquartered.

That being said, I am interested in the theory behind this so I'm open to looking at prior cases. Are you aware of any times when this has been an issue on Wikipedia? --Habst (talk) 20:35, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you reproduce a database in its entirety in another database (Wikipedia is a database), presenting that data as structured data derived from the original database without explanation or synthesis, it is likely that you have breached database right or equivalent IP laws in any jurisdiction (it is under copyright in the US). Whether you have breached the law or not, however, is irrelevant. It is also unethical. Those who created the collation should not have the collation lifted and dumped into structured data elsewhere on the web. That is their work, and we now deprive them of the traffic to their collation by ensuring our higher page ranked duplicate of their collation will be found first. I know what I would think about that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:53, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your explanation. Whether I have personally broken the law is of course very relevant to the legal concerns you raised, so I'm going to respond to this primarily -- I don't think that's true at all. The list of Olympians is recorded in multiple "databases" (including hundreds of newspapers), not just one -- and simple facts like sports results are not copyrightable in the U.S. per "Subject matter of copyright". Could the Olympics sue the New York Times for publishing a list of competitors/results in their paper?

Under this logic, I think that simply linking to this PetScan would be illegal, as it lists 150,000 Olympians.

Re: ethics, per WP:AIM Wikipedia is founded upon the idea of sharing knowledge for the betterment of society. If doing this was illegal in any way, I agree there could be questions, but legal creation of lists with encyclopedic value isn't something most would consider immoral -- we do not need to ask the Olympics for permission before publishing Olympic results pages on Wikipedia. --Habst (talk) 12:44, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, you are incorrect. US copyright law has a similar protection to Database Right. The US Copyright Act says that compilations are protected as creative works. A compilation is a "collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of authorship." This is an equivalent protection to database right, and it means a page that wholly reproduces a database is likely to breach that act. And so it should, as I've said. We should not be stealing their traffic by stealing their work.

Linking to PetScan is certainly not illegal, because a link does not create a copy. Copyright protects the right to make copies of a work. Merely linking to a work is not a breach of copyright. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:01, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think you are correct. You cannot copyright a fact, and we are simply hosting factual information that someone participated in the Olympics. There is no creativity in a database which merely lists simple compilations of facts. SportingFlyer T·C 13:38, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See: [46]. It is not the fact that is copyrighted, it is the compilation. The compilation is the creative work. If this page is not deleted, it needs a lawyer to look at it carefully and decide whether it can be defended. We are not free to copy databases. They may contain known facts, but they are also a compilation, which is a protected work. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:09, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The compilation needs to have a creative element above and beyond simply listing ordinarily compiled facts to be eligible for copyright. That is clearly not the case here. SportingFlyer T·C 16:00, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Sirfurboy: How can this list be a copy of a database when all other databases are significantly more incomplete than this one? It is a baseless claim that is simply thrown out here. A simple random check of athletes in the first ten Olympic Games makes this very clear. Miria~01 (talk) 16:09, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It could still be a copy of multiple databases, as appears to be the case here. Personally I am persuaded by what Sirfurboy is saying here, and it is yet another reason these lists should be removed from mainspace, at least in the short term. Let'srun (talk) 17:02, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Copy of multiple databases? That's not how it works at all. No one can possibly claim copyright over a simple database of who appeared in the Olympics! Sports leagues have often tried to control this. MLB doesn't own their statistics, the English Football League can't even copyright their fixture list (after years in the courts.) SportingFlyer T·C 17:15, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is an independent created compilation work by the collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected, coordinated, or arranged in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of authorship. That says it all. Multiple sources, databases, and Wikipedia entries on the category were consulted to compile this list, and it clearly represents independent work.
@Sirfurboy assumed that this list is a copy of the olymics.com database, which of course is not true,
see e.g. medalists (two medalists at arts comp. and some random athletes with won medals from 1904) not existing in the database of olympics.com:

And there are several hundred (perhaps even thousands without medals) missing there with and many are there, but information is incomplete. Miria~01 (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are aware of the concept of derivative works? The Olympics.com database is the major copyrightable element of this page, is it not? It is immaterial whether a few extras have been added. Again, stop making assumptions about how you think this works. We will need an IP lawyer to look at this if we want to keep it. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's not true, if anything then Olympedia is the main source that has been used, definitely not olympics.com. Miria~01 (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Olympics absolutely, completely, definitively do not own who participated in the Olympics, and that is not a reason for a deletion. If you think it's a copyvio, file a copyvio report. SportingFlyer T·C 20:02, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it is the collation that is a protected work. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:35, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to this highly questionable definition, countless lists here on Wikipedia would have to be deleted, like List of UEFA Champions League top scorers or List of NASA missions. No one can prohibit the compilation of publicly accessible data in lists. If a "specific precedent exists", please present it here.

It's quite amusing that even though you had a false idea about how the list was created, namely not as a copy of the oylmpics.com database (which is complete garbage with countless errors and missing information), you double down without giving any evidence to your claim that this list violates intellectual property. Just so you understand, even technically to copy the data at all, one would have to hack into the IOC server to extract the data from the backend, since the output on the website doesn't create a list of athletes, but only individual names that one has to explicitly enter in the search bar. Miria~01 (talk) 21:22, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And again, no it's not. The collation has to be more than a mere listing of simple facts. We're not going to get anywhere with this, but if you really think this is a copyright violation - it is not - please use our copyvio mechanism. SportingFlyer T·C 21:26, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see a mechanism to report them all other than to tag them for speedy deletion, which would be disruptive in an AfD and tricky considering the number, which is why I have raised it here so that a closing admin can take note and appropriate action. Please also bear in mind this note to closer - this AfD is not suitable for non admin closure. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:43, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think it is not suitable for non-admin closure? It's also not difficult to tag them all for speedy deletion -- I want to emphasize it would be a bad idea because they're not eligible for CSD and the tags would be removed by an admin, but technically not tricky.

On Wikipedia, we are not obligated to have IP lawyers review pages before deciding to keep them. That is an unachievable standard and at some point continuing to harp on this stating I 'may' have broken the law with no basis becomes a legal threat (complaints of valid copyright violations are not legal threats). I respect your contributions and wish you could just make an argument based on the merits of the list rather than saying that I may have broken the law by creating a list of Olympic competitors. --Habst (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My argument on the basis of the list is in my !vote above. An admin close is required, as any close may require admin tools. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:14, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Why is an admin close required? --Habst (talk) 17:37, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See directly above. On another point, would you please explain how you obtained the collation that you used here? Although it is actually largely moot as to whose collation it is (which is why I did not answer the point made by Miria~01 above), because database right / copyright accrues to the collation, regardless of who collated it, it is pertinent if (a) the collation is licensed under an open license, and (b) if we are actually using a collation that we have not even cited. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:49, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Not really seeing a strong policy argument here on the delete side. Olympic competitors are clearly a topic of discussion in reliable sources as a group/set. The group is therefore defining and is not indiscriminate. Listing them alphabetically in a searchable list passes WP:NLIST. This list doesn't match any of the six criteria outlined at WP:NOTDIRECTORY so it categorically doesn't violate that policy. It also does not match any of the four criteria at WP:NOTDATABASE so that policy argument is also invalid. The main complaint here of any substance is the list is too big which is an article size issue. If the list is too large it can be split into smaller pages. Editorially changing the way we cover this content can be pursued through the normal WP:CONSENSUS channels. Oppose a move to draft per WP:NOTBACKDOOR. 4meter4 (talk) 13:54, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There are two questions to be addressed here: (1) whether we should have a list of all Olympians, and (2) if we do, how it should be organized. On question 2, I am seeing concerns but not consensus that the current format is unwieldy, but that's not really a matter for AfD, as any reorganization would preclude deletion. I'm not seeing as much discussion as we'd like on question 1. Given the history of NSPORTS and NLISTS discussions I can genuinely see it going either way. Regardless, IMO both questions would benefit from wider input.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:33, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]